World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[Tanooki]

Yeah basically it allows for power not to just coalesce into just large cities totally leaving the smaller rural areas hung out to dry. It doesn't take much away, just gives a chance for the smaller groups to have a chance at the say of things. It makes sense as it gives a chance, but no it's not 100% democratic, but people throw that around when it's really more of a representative democratic republic.

[dsheinem]

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... voter.html

If you voted for Trump, you voted for this, regardless of what you believe about the groups in question. That you have black friends or Latino colleagues, that you think yourself to be tolerant and decent, doesn’t change the fact that you voted for racist policy that may affect, change, or harm their lives. And on that score, your frustration at being labeled a racist doesn’t justify or mitigate the moral weight of your political choice.

[jp1]

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... voter.html

If you voted for Trump, you voted for this, regardless of what you believe about the groups in question. That you have black friends or Latino colleagues, that you think yourself to be tolerant and decent, doesn’t change the fact that you voted for racist policy that may affect, change, or harm their lives. And on that score, your frustration at being labeled a racist doesn’t justify or mitigate the moral weight of your political choice.

I was getting a little frustrated that my fellow progressive thinkers were backing down a little bit on this debate. No doubt due to the few Trump voters who exhibit some of the same charming qualities he does (Not all of you). Perhaps you have some certain sense of obligation in keeping the peace, I get it. I don't agree though.

If you voted for the man, and you don't own his bullshit, you are a hypocrite. Stop wagging your fingers with a bunch of crap about "Do you support your candidate?", because the answer is yes. Anyone who isn't still outraged at having a president elected on hate is in the wrong in my opinion. Don't give a damn if it offends you, and no I won't compromise on it.

All the stupid posts full of Trump pictures, right wing propaganda media, and raving lunatics in the world do not change the simple fact that you knowingly voted for a man that stands for all these terrible things.

Use all the deflection tactics you like. All it really does in my opinion is perpetuate the stereotypes that you are trying to ignore.

If you spend your money at a company that uses profits to fund terrorism, you didn't just purchase goods. You might have purchased the round that cost someone their life.

Be aware of both the good and bad you do in the world and stop trying to act like you have no ownership in the hatred and hateful acts that are being done. It's a worse look than just coming out and saying you don't give a shit. At least then you wouldn't be perceived as ignorant enough to not even realize what you took part in.

I'd say I'm sorry if that offends you, but I'm not. I'm tired of the continued dismissal of the issue as if it doesn't matter. God forbid that any of you would have been born a different race, different sexual orientation, different gender... I have to wonder how smug you would be about human rights issues if that was the case. Human rights is not an issue you can be smug about. It's one you can be right or wrong about, there is no in between.

We don't view the world differently. We view people differently.

I view the world with eyes that see people as equals, how do you see it?

[prfsnl_gmr]

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... voter.html

If you voted for Trump, you voted for this, regardless of what you believe about the groups in question. That you have black friends or Latino colleagues, that you think yourself to be tolerant and decent, doesn’t change the fact that you voted for racist policy that may affect, change, or harm their lives. And on that score, your frustration at being labeled a racist doesn’t justify or mitigate the moral weight of your political choice.

I like a lot of Jamelle Bouie's articles, but I don't like that one.

EDIT: To clarify...I do not think that the tone of the article is helpful to promoting a meaningful dialogue and for convincing people who voted for Trump that, the next time they vote, they should vote for a democratic candidate.

[jp1]

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... voter.html

If you voted for Trump, you voted for this, regardless of what you believe about the groups in question. That you have black friends or Latino colleagues, that you think yourself to be tolerant and decent, doesn’t change the fact that you voted for racist policy that may affect, change, or harm their lives. And on that score, your frustration at being labeled a racist doesn’t justify or mitigate the moral weight of your political choice.

I like a lot of Jamelle Bouie's articles, but I don't like that one.

Why not? I'm interested to hear the perspective of a left leaning blue that doesn't agree with the sentiment. Perhaps I could suppress some of my own outrage if I could understand it from a different point of view.

[prfsnl_gmr]

Why not? I'm interested to hear the perspective of a left leaning blue that doesn't agree with the sentiment. Perhaps I could suppress some of my own outrage if I could understand it from a different point of view.

As I mentioned in my edited post, I do not think that the tone of the article is productive. It demonizes people who did not vote for my candidate of choice in the last election. There are many reasons that they might have done so, and some of those reasons might have outweighed their distaste for the bigotry displayed by Donald Trump and some of his supporters during the campaign. I am not in a position to judge each and every voter's motivation for supporting Donald Trump with their vote, and I do not think that labeling all of them as bigots and racists, or even complicit in bigoted and racist acts taken by his administration, is accurate.

More importantly, the article does absolutely nothing to persuade people that voted for Donald Trump that they should not have done so and that they should not do so when he is up for re-election in 2020. (Sanctimonious shaming only works on children, and in my experience, it has precisely the opposite effect on adults.) The better approach, IMO, is to educate people regarding the effects of Donald Trump's bigotry and how much it hurts good people so that, the next time they are in a voting booth, they decide to pull the lever for a democratic candidate.

[Tanooki]

^Appreciate that post above, it's far more open minded to reality and actually has some understanding other than the black and white argument being if you vote Trump you're a hateful piece of shit too and either own it(accept it), agree with it, or a hypocrite about it. It's not that simple. As you said it demonizes people with valid concerns who liked his policy not the person, or just happened to find Clinton and her baggage and handling things just more deceitful and vile as a middle finger vote against her (and establishment in general.)

All I know is at this rate I'm tiring of all this whining and bitching about it. Not my president, you know...fuck you to those people. He is like it or not going to be so, unless you plan to move and give up your citizenship. Nothing they're doing, the behavior of all the college crybabies needing safe spaces, playdoh, and crying rooms are going to make someone want to see their side let alone side with it.

The more I'm seeing now are those who didn't vote for either are wishing they had voted for Trump because they're tired of this dumpster fire of seemingly childish behavior. This is no way to endear people to want to vote in 2020 for whoever the DNC throws up to the top spot.

Personally speaking, I had no love or interest in Trump so I voted to not vote for either. But at this rate if this shit keeps rolling into the months and years and Trump does keep a good many of his website listed promises I probably would vote to re-elect the guy. Why? Unlike a career politician he would have done as he said he would, and two, a big fuck you to all this behavior going on now of whining, hate, labeling, and saying you agree with me, or you're a racist (or whatever -ist) too. I couldn't stand that crap before he was even in just in general conversation and I'm really tired of it now.

[MrPopo]

^Appreciate that post above, it's far more open minded to reality and actually has some understanding other than the black and white argument being if you vote Trump you're a hateful piece of shit too and either own it(accept it), agree with it, or a hypocrite about it. It's not that simple. As you said it demonizes people with valid concerns who liked his policy not the person, or just happened to find Clinton and her baggage and handling things just more deceitful and vile as a middle finger vote against her (and establishment in general.)

See, this is exactly what he's talking about. The argument is not that a Trump vote means that YOU are hateful. But does mean you are OK with electing a hateful person. That you considered your other concerns to be more important than keeping hate out of the presidency. (and before you sidetrack yourself, yes I know you, Tanooki, didn't vote for him)

[Tanooki]

I knew you knew that I made it clear I wouldn't touch either one of them before. That said I get the argument, and I know what you're saying, but the way people are behaving right now is not just stopping at being 'ok to vote for a hateful person' as that's not really what's going down. What is going down right now is inflaming a lot of people, not even just Trump supporters, and if they get and stay alienated it's just maybe helping the guy get another 4 years before he started his first 4. There can be far more productive ways to behave either militantly with things, or not being a huge pussy about it needing safe spaces, crying rooms, deferred tests, childrens toys and the rest to get over it. It pity anyone in the latter part of that last sentence if they think they'll get far in the working world behaving like that.

[MrPopo]

That's the second time you've brought up your hilariously flawed understanding of the left wing agenda of "stop being assholes to each other".