World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[jp1]

Let's break it down:

If you voted for Donald Trump your a racist, even if you didn't realize you're a racist. If you still don't realize you're a racist, you need to think about it until you realize either A. You are a racist, or B. You're not and now you feel really guilty about voting for him. That seems to be the only direction this conversation is moving.

No, it's just that you feel your other concerns were worth electing someone who made bigotry part of his rhetoric, and thus showed a bunch of bigots that it was ok. Think of it like this; many Republicans have abortion as their single issue that drives their voting. So they'd never vote for a candidate who supported access to abortions. Bigotry is the Democrat version of that, which is why they're having so much trouble wrapping their head around how someone could support Trump, regardless of the rest of his platform.

Exactly, however I maintain that your vote makes you culpable for the results of said vote. Especially in such a case where the facts were clear as day and represented many times. If you aren't willing to accept responsibility (in part) for a machine you helped build, then you shouldn't have your hands in on making it. You shouldn't get to just drop your ballot in and walk away unaffected by whatever harm it causes to other people.

Surely not, and most especially not, while calling yourself a Christian. I take offense to that. Donald Trump DOES NOT represent Christian values simply because he is a republican. That's my opinion, and I state it as such because I don't wish to be lumped in with other "Christians" who don't believe wholeheartedly that everyone deserves to be treated equally, with dignity, and with compassion. None of which are Trump values.

I take that stance not just as a Christian, but as a man and a human being who feels social responsibility to all other men and women who have helped build the country I enjoy the fruits of. Even those who I disagree with, I don't wish your rights stripped away, or any hardship to come to you. I simply want the same for everyone else as well. If that means I get a smaller slice of pie at the thanksgiving table then so be it, at least one more person gets to eat.

That's the last I'll have to say about religion on the topic.

[jp1]

I do need to add that if Trump continues, when he's President, talking as he has that all of us need to call him on it and if needed censure him. People from every background, race, color, and religion. The things he has said is not ok. The platform is what most people got behind or that they couldn't genuinely vote for Hillary for a variety of reasons.

Leftists calling for people owning Trump idiots actions need to own the statements made by Jones from CNN who called it a whitelash or other reporters who said the only reason she lost was because she was female. That's pure racism and sexism and is being used as a rallying cry. It doesn't work both ways.

I'll own Jones statement. In fact I believe it in part to be true, look at the joy the KKK has taken from this victory. He also said there were other factors involved.

I don't believe that the only reason Hillary lost is because she is a female. I doubt it helped her chances though, for the same reasons.

In fact, I accept partial culpability in anything Hillary does while she is still in politics, and would have while in office as long as it was part of her campaign. That's what my vote meant.

[Jrecee]

Okay, replace "racist" with "responsible for the racists". It still comes back to "I hold the moral high ground because I voted for Hillary and you're responsible for the bad shit". That's how it comes across to the Trump voters. And that's also how it's coming across to the no-voters and the 3rd party voters who are being blamed for his win as well. The guy in the video I posted said it better than I can, but I think this attitude is what let him win in the first place, and what has the potential to tear the Democratic party apart.

The whole "own the guy you voted for" is a philosophy. Not everybody fully shares that philosophy. Should they? Maybe. But if they don't, if they disagree with that, then the criticisms come at them in a different framing than they would to someone who holds that philosophy. That's where the problem lies. We may be able to factually deduce that Trump is a racist or a misogynist, but an argument about your personal feelings on the power of voting is not something that's quantifiable.

And for the record I didn't vote for him. I just like playing devil's advocate.

[Sarge]

I understand why people voted against Donald Trump. I see the concerns. I can't tell anyone how they're supposed to feel. But there are many, many factors that go into a person's vote. This year was one of those where, if he had a snowball's chance in Hades, I'd have voted for Evan McMullin. I still considered it. I didn't, though, because I am a realist. He didn't have a chance. And my vote could not go to Sec. Clinton. So I voted for Trump. There is a chance, however slim, that he will act on policy matters in a way keeping with my own views. There is also a significant chance that he will do some of the very same things that Sec. Clinton would have. He may end up being a disaster. We just don't know! There is a larger body of evidence that tells me how Sec. Clinton would govern, and that was unacceptable. So I took the risk.

The abortion issue is an interesting one, MrPopo. Primarily because while Mr. Trump intimates that he will defend the unborn, he doesn't really have a personal record that indicates as such. Really, the only hope there is that having run under the GOP banner, he will feel more pressure on that and other issues. But he may revert to his Democratic roots. I have plenty of friends that still believe he's a charlatan, and I'm inclined to agree with them. Again, it's all a crapshoot. The possibility of getting some policy through that I agree with is more palatable than no policies I agree with. I basically have a cost-benefit matrix in my head that I had to use to evaluate this election. We all do, we just assign different weights to different aspects of the table.

jp1, I appreciate your conviction on this. For myself, I feel there was enough with Sec. Clinton as well that precluded me from voting for her, from a policy and a religious perspective. The only difference between myself and some of my friends is that I still voted "the lesser of two evils", at least in my mind. I've told friends that, if given the choice between Hitler and Mussolini, I reckon I'd have to vote for Mussolini. It's an extreme example (clearly, neither of these candidates rise to that level), but it captures most of my sentiments about this election.

As for regretting my vote, in a vacuum, sure I do. The lesser of two evils is still an evil. I don't regret it in the context of the only other realistic choice, however. I may very well have to answer that one day, either in this world or the next, but that time is not here yet.

[jp1]

I understand why people voted against Donald Trump. I see the concerns. I can't tell anyone how they're supposed to feel. But there are many, many factors that go into a person's vote. This year was one of those where, if he had a snowball's chance in Hades, I'd have voted for Evan McMullin. I still considered it. I didn't, though, because I am a realist. He didn't have a chance. And my vote could not go to Sec. Clinton. So I voted for Trump. There is a chance, however slim, that he will act on policy matters in a way keeping with my own views. There is also a significant chance that he will do some of the very same things that Sec. Clinton would have. He may end up being a disaster. We just don't know! There is a larger body of evidence that tells me how Sec. Clinton would govern, and that was unacceptable. So I took the risk.

The abortion issue is an interesting one, MrPopo. Primarily because while Mr. Trump intimates that he will defend the unborn, he doesn't really have a personal record that indicates as such. Really, the only hope there is that having run under the GOP banner, he will feel more pressure on that and other issues. But he may revert to his Democratic roots. I have plenty of friends that still believe he's a charlatan, and I'm inclined to agree with them. Again, it's all a crapshoot. The possibility of getting some policy through that I agree with is more palatable than no policies I agree with. I basically have a cost-benefit matrix in my head that I had to use to evaluate this election. We all do, we just assign different weights to different aspects of the table.

jp1, I appreciate your conviction on this. For myself, I feel there was enough with Sec. Clinton as well that precluded me from voting for her, from a policy and a religious perspective. The only difference between myself and some of my friends is that I still voted "the lesser of two evils", at least in my mind. I've told friends that, if given the choice between Hitler and Mussolini, I reckon I'd have to vote for Mussolini. It's an extreme example (clearly, neither of these candidates rise to that level), but it captures most of my sentiments about this election.

As for regretting my vote, in a vacuum, sure I do. The lesser of two evils is still an evil. I don't regret it in the context of the only other realistic choice, however. I may very well have to answer that one day, either in this world or the next, but that time is not here yet.

This is all I wanted from you Sarge, I appreciate the post a great deal.

[jp1]

Okay, replace "racist" with "responsible for the racists". It still comes back to "I hold the moral high ground because I voted for Hillary and you're responsible for the bad shit". That's how it comes across to the Trump voters. And that's also how it's coming across to the no-voters and the 3rd party voters who are being blamed for his win as well. The guy in the video I posted said it better than I can, but I think this attitude is what let him win in the first place, and what has the potential to tear the Democratic party apart.

The whole "own the guy you voted for" is a philosophy. Not everybody fully shares that philosophy. Should they? Maybe. But if they don't, if they disagree with that, then the criticisms come at them in a different framing than they would to someone who holds that philosophy. That's where the problem lies. We may be able to factually deduce that Trump is a racist or a misogynist, but an argument about your personal feelings on the power of voting is not something that's quantifiable.

And for the record I didn't vote for him. I just like playing devil's advocate.

For the record, I couldn't care less about holding a moral high ground. Hillary was far from an ideal choice either and I cast that vote begrudgingly, but I made my choice.

I'm not trying to "win" or be better than anyone. That is not, and has never been what this is about for me.

I'm sure it isn't quantifiable the extent you should be held responsible for your vote, I'm not sure I agree that it's debatable if you should at all though.

It's a choice and a responsibility and it doesn't end when you are done, we all have to live with consequences of it. Good or bad. I hope Trump turns out to be a different man than I perceive him to be, I hope for all of our sake that he turns out to be a great president. I'm just not very confident in seeing it happen.

[Blu]

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/woma ... -ann-arbor

Oh look, a hate crime taking place literally less than a block from where I live. I have several members of my staff impacted by this.


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[jp1]

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/woma ... -ann-arbor

Oh look, a hate crime taking place literally less than a block from where I live. I have several members of my staff impacted by this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry to hear about that Blu. My wife just today saw some mock lynchings made from garbage bags and strung up. There have been other incidents around me as well, nothing violent yet...

It's more widespread than people want to believe.

I'm afraid this is just going to escalate until something drastic is done to change it. Everyone is mad and we are all divided.

[Tanooki]

I understand why people voted against Donald Trump. I see the concerns. I can't tell anyone how they're supposed to feel. But there are many, many factors that go into a person's vote. This year was one of those where, if he had a snowball's chance in Hades, I'd have voted for Evan McMullin. I still considered it. I didn't, though, because I am a realist. He didn't have a chance. And my vote could not go to Sec. Clinton. So I voted for Trump. There is a chance, however slim, that he will act on policy matters in a way keeping with my own views. There is also a significant chance that he will do some of the very same things that Sec. Clinton would have. He may end up being a disaster. We just don't know! There is a larger body of evidence that tells me how Sec. Clinton would govern, and that was unacceptable. So I took the risk.
*snip for size*
As for regretting my vote, in a vacuum, sure I do. The lesser of two evils is still an evil. I don't regret it in the context of the only other realistic choice, however. I may very well have to answer that one day, either in this world or the next, but that time is not here yet.

I know I've stayed away from the internet today entirely and now am catching up. As annoyed as I was in this thread yesterday from the voice of the left in here, I wish I had written this post. This is where I was mentally on it and just did not articulate it at all, except I didn't vote, but I feel I'm still basically being made to feel complicit by not voting for a democrat who happened to be a woman who I found actually more vile on that whole cost matrix. The one difference here, I'm not religious, but even in that I don't feel abortion has any right to be entangled in politics so I avoid it completely. In the end a democrat in republicans clothing got the job, he may be a hot mess, and he may be as some verbal democrats have said quite acceptable and one who will work with them on pet projects they like (infrastructure, blue collar jobs, etc) and more (and I definitely don't see that guy making the bible the law of the land either.)

[Exhuminator]

Sarge and jmbarnes101 dropped some great truthbombs. Especially jmbarnes101, bravo sir.

Now I'm not saying all, but at least a significant amount of these reported hatecrimes are beginning to be shown as hoaxes:

https://reason.com/blog/2016/11/11/elec ... tack-false

http://theralphretort.com/liars-media-h ... -11010016/

http://klfy.com/2016/11/10/lafayette-pd ... len-hijab/

And look at this:

"This week, there has been a wave of crimes against Trump supporters — including violent assaults on an 11-year-old boy and a female California high school sophomore" "11-Yr-Old Boy Attacked at School & Put in Crutches for Voting Trump in Mock Election"

http://wearechange.org/fake-hate-crimes ... upporters/

Gee, I hope all the Hillary supporters take credit for that 11 year old kid getting the shit kicked out of him, if you know, you want us Trump voters to take credit for the bad apples on the other side of the fence. Only fair, right?

You guys are so blinded by the cherry picking left wing liberal extremist media outlets you don't even realize that Trump does support gay rights...

"Trump walked on stage in Greeley, Colorado to a large cheering crowd when he spotted a rainbow flag in the audience. As the music blasted through the speakers, Mr. Trump pointed to a supporter as if to ask if he could see his flag and then motioned for a campaign worker to help retrieve the LGBT symbol of equality from the attendee."



http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... -equality/

"And yet, the moment was barely reported by the media despite the fact it happened in front of the traveling press corps accompanying Mr. Trump. Political reporters, not unsurprising, largely failed to write on the moment where a Republican challenged their negative media stereotype."

And not only that, but besides capturing over 40% of the Democratic vote, he also had black voters, latino voters, and yes even MUSLIM voters...




http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/06 ... ince-1960/




http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk ... rump-voter






http://ilovemyfreedom.org/yes-shes-musl ... tes-trump/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/glo ... for-trump/

Oh my and those Muslims were even women! What's that, even women voted for Trump?

Why yes, they did...









But this cannot be. Gay people, black people, latinos, Muslims, and even WOMEN voted for Trump?! Impossible, because my safe spot circle jerk media says it never happened! Oh, so I guess gays, blacks, latinos, Muslims, and women are just as guilty for the hate crimes going on as those rich old racist white dudes. What a bunch of elitist asshats, the lot of them!

Yeah I'm being a smart ass. Because I'm tired of wading waste deep in the bullshit in this thread. Some of you dudes legit lived in a political bubble, and that's why you're all so shocked now that's it's popped and you can see the real world.

You know why so many people hate "social justice warriors"? Not because they fight for social justice, but because they act so goddamned entitled about it:

http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/s ... liberalism

This high & mighty SJW attitude is a big part of what cost you this election. Learn to compromise instead of pointing fingers and acting like the smarmy thought police.