World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

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Blu
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by Blu »

Exhuminator wrote:
Blu wrote:Actually, thanks for making an assumption on my behalf.
You mean like your assumption earlier where people who didn't immediately come to your aid against brunoah (whatever his name is) are automatically condoning his behavior? Maybe we know the mods around here aren't going to put up with such things, so there's no need doing their work for them. Our job as forum members is to report such things to the mods, not to confront jerks directly and only escalate their behavior further.

And Blu, for the record; I have gay family members and friends of other skin colors than white. If anybody in real life tried to abuse them in front of me, they would regret it.
I don't need a personal army. And no, I won't leap into assumptions on what you all may believe. But there's also a fairly easy fine line between saying nothing, saying, "Not cool, Brunomars", and fanning the flames and escalating. We as a community haven't struck that balance, at least from my perspective. Otherwise it just sits out there the open, ruminating. Passiveness/silence normalizes these types of attitudes and enables this damaging type of speech.
Sarge wrote:Probably for the best, prf. To be clear, Blu, I've got absolutely nothing against you. This election has heightened emotions across the board, including my own, and I certainly don't want to end up in a spot where we're ripping each others metaphorical throats out. :lol:

I appreciate your vigilance, Blu. I hope that you will call it out wherever it may occur, whether "left", "right", or just plain crazy. :)
No worries at all, Sarge. I also respect you and thank you for listening to what I have to say. We're cool. I didn't take anything personally and also hope that you wasn't attacking your person or character.
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jp1
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by jp1 »

Exhuminator wrote:
Blu wrote:Actually, thanks for making an assumption on my behalf.
You mean like your assumption earlier where people who didn't immediately come to your aid against brunoah (whatever his name is) are automatically condoning his behavior? Maybe we know the mods around here aren't going to put up with such things, so there's no need doing their work for them. Our job as forum members is to report such things to the mods, not to confront jerks directly and only escalate their behavior further.

And Blu, for the record; I have gay family members and friends of other skin colors than white. If anybody in real life tried to abuse them in front of me, they would regret it.
I don't think having a perceived attitude of indifference is helping anyone. Surely, my angry post didn't do anything to help the situation and I probably could have approached it differently, but I will always make known my nature to those who are intolerant.

I trust the mods here to deal with problems like that, of course. I still choose to add one more voice of disapproval so people who do actively hate or discriminate are that much less emboldened. Standing by and doing nothing achieves nothing, and if you care (as you say) then achieving nothing is unacceptable.

It shouldn't have to be your loved ones or family that is being mistreated for you to take an active interest in correcting it. I don't believe you to be a bad person Exhuminator, but in my opinion your attitude (to a lesser extent than some others) about this whole situation sucks. You got what you wanted, it can't hurt now to give a damn about the people that were hurt, or will be hurt, in the process.

Not trying to single you out, you and Sarge just happen to be the only two I feel have any chance at meaningful discourse on this subject.
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by Tanooki »

Blu wrote: From what I've seen, for the folks that have spoken up, namely Sarge, Exhuminator, Tanooki, and CRTGAMER:

Regardless of intention, there needs to be clear condemning and denouncing of such things. Otherwise, those who are actually supremacists, sexists, homophobes, islamaphobes, etc are just going to be emboldened and enabled to do it more. There's a difference between dogpiling and coming out clear and setting a tone you won't accept speech like that. It keeps humanity from devolving even further into madness.
We may not agree I believe politically on this front, but as far as putting up with shit from trolls like you listed, I do not. My point in what I was going into is that just because those losers feel more bold today, is that many of them won't as time rolls along. Just because they feel they can associate to Trump, I have a feeling they are going to be hard core let down. His silence isn't an agreement or disagreement with those turds, and I don't see it as complicit either, it's a tactic I tend to find useful -- shut up and let them bury themselves while not dogpiling onto the mess. The deplorables will burn themselves down as people fight back on them, but just stumping Trump isn't going to crush their balls at this point. The attacks now should be directly thrown upon those twits as groups or individually.

Sure it would help if Trump told them to go STFU and sit in a corner, but from what I've seen of the guy over the years it isn't his style. They're feeling emboldened now, just as the far left sjws and of the sort did when Obama was in transition and also through his first few years, but by that second election a lot of them were questioning as they felt abandoned too and while he won it was no momentous blowout again either. Going into it now quite a few actually feel screwed by what all he has done. Trump played into that as much as the fears and needs of others who have felt like they were stepped on by both parties and/or ignored. If anything and it is a bit amusing, he used the Obama playbook to get elected, same generalized tactics, different message and it was effective enough to skate in.

Exhuminator did have a couple points. He could surprise everyone and be pretty respectable for a human being and do a good job. But in the end one thing a lot of people red and blue of the lower/middle class wanted was economic repair not stagnation and numbers games dismissing true un and underemployment numbers with a crap GDP growth. They saw a businessman who was a piece of shit verbally, but in dealings got the job done one way or the other and created growth (and grew his assets into the billions) so maybe people just felt a non-politician global businessman may fix stuff and get the gears rolling smoothly again instead of a slow rusty grind.
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jp1
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by jp1 »

TSTR wrote:I don't know, man. Becoming the speech police seems like a bad idea to me. Call it when you see it, sure, but trying to tell people they don't have a right to say those things doesn't sit well with me. Plus, it makes ignorance and/or outright hatred easier to spot, IMO.
People have a right to do and say as they please, as long as they are willing to deal with the ramifications of those actions. Stepping in and saying you disapprove is the same free speech.

FYI, I got PM'd by a mod for stepping in with the tone and in the manner that I did. I stand by the sentiment though. I only point that out, because the site clearly isn't looking for vigilante speech police either.

Anyway, I know where you are coming from. It's all luv bb. :wink:
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TSTR
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by TSTR »

jp1 wrote:
TSTR wrote:I don't know, man. Becoming the speech police seems like a bad idea to me. Call it when you see it, sure, but trying to tell people they don't have a right to say those things doesn't sit well with me. Plus, it makes ignorance and/or outright hatred easier to spot, IMO.
People have a right to do and say as they please, as long as they are willing to deal with the ramifications of those actions. Stepping in and saying you disapprove is the same free speech.

FYI, I got PM'd by a mod for stepping in with the tone and in the manner that I did. I stand by the sentiment though. I only point that out, because the site clearly isn't looking for vigilante speech police either.

Anyway, I know where you are coming from. It's all luv bb. :wink:
Yep, agreed. LOVE
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Exhuminator
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by Exhuminator »

jp1 wrote:Standing by and doing nothing achieves nothing, and if you care (as you say) then achieving nothing is unacceptable.
I stood out of the way of the ban hammer that came down in less than 15 minutes after brudoopy said what he did. It hit him squarely in the face and eliminated his existence on this board as we knew it would. The dude knew he was committing forum suicide and so did the rest of us. Calling a mod a faggot here is the equivalent of sticking a primed grenade up your own ass.

I still don't agree that saying nothing is equivalent to condoning someone's actions. The assumption being that you agree because you don't say you disagree. The inverse of that logic is therefore possible as well. You don't agree with someone because you didn't say you agreed. Silence is not indicative of agreement. People say things on this board, especially in this thread, that I don't agree with, all the time. Just because I don't contest those things doesn't by any stretch of the imagination mean I agree with them.
PLAY KING'S FIELD.
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Blu
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by Blu »

Exhuminator wrote: I still don't agree that saying nothing is equivalent to condoning someone's actions. The assumption being that you agree because you don't say you disagree. The inverse of that logic is therefore possible as well. You don't agree with someone because you didn't say you agreed. Silence is not indicative of agreement. People say things on this board, especially in this thread, that I don't agree with, all the time. Just because I don't contest those things doesn't by any stretch of the imagination mean I agree with them.
That is not the point I am making. I think within reason, there's not an expectation to speak up when there's a simple disagreement. It's the fringe perspectives that come forth which devalue human lives, that we have an obligation and responsibility to disassociate ourselves from and condemn with a clear voice.

Why is the banhammer the only acceptable form of justice in this circumstance? Who defines that? Why is that the norm?

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by Tanooki »

Good quote seen it before. The problem is if you think about it, that has been going on under Obama quite a bit. He repeatedly stepped into things that caused some real divisions among races, sexes, and authority figures. That caused problems, and those who agreed with him didn't speak up it was a bad idea, and those who did cheered (egged) it on. If you diagreed you were human garbage, and if you kept quiet you were possibly assumed as much too for not joining in. It's kind of like the sides in BLM and All Lives Matter, because you have a few bad cops, you don't tar all of them and keep quiet about cops being killed over it. Silence doesn't mean agreement or disagreement.
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Exhuminator
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by Exhuminator »

Blu wrote: "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
This quote is misleading and out of context. Who spoke for you? The ban hammer spoke for you. That's what it's there for. It did its job.
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