Nintendo 3DS

[YoshiEgg25]

I am in the same boat with the first half, and agree entirely with everything from the second part. Good to see I'm dealing with someone who knows what he's talking about.

People like us are a rare breed. From my experience, I would estimate that only about 5% of players play to win. The other 95% believe they are playing to win, but they actually aren't.

Do you agree with this? If not, what percentage do you think is accurate?

I'd say 5% play to win, 90% think they are, and 5% don't give a motherfucking shit and drive around getting only blue shells and lightning.

[Inazuma]

I'd say 5% play to win, 90% think they are, and 5% don't give a motherfucking shit and drive around getting only blue shells and lightning.

Lol. Sounds right to me. It's really a shame that most people want to win but don't fully understand how to do it.

You mentioned your MKDS win/loss ratio earlier so I wanted to check my own. I have 374 wins and 41 losses, which is a 90% win rate. I learned how to play the game online, and I don't run away from good players. It looks like I'm really good but honestly, I didn't really put enough time into the game to get that good. There are just so many horrible players on the game who beat themselves, it didn't take much for me to win.

For Mario Kart 7, I'd like to actually practice and try to become good at the game. I'm not playing any online games currently so hopefully I have the time to be able to do it.

[MrPopo]

I'd say 5% play to win, 90% think they are, and 5% don't give a motherfucking shit and drive around getting only blue shells and lightning.

Lol. Sounds right to me. It's really a shame that most people want to win but don't fully understand how to do it.

Or maybe they define winning differently from you. I know you get your playing to win philosophy from Sirlin, but I think a better profile of players was done by Mark Rosewater of Magic.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/a ... aily/mr11b

Everything I've see you post about puts you solidly as a Spike. I've found that I'm more of a Johnny.

[Inazuma]

I'd say 5% play to win, 90% think they are, and 5% don't give a motherfucking shit and drive around getting only blue shells and lightning.

Lol. Sounds right to me. It's really a shame that most people want to win but don't fully understand how to do it.

Or maybe they define winning differently from you. I know you get your playing to win philosophy from Sirlin, but I think a better profile of players was done by Mark Rosewater of Magic.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/a ... aily/mr11b

Everything I've see you post about puts you solidly as a Spike. I've found that I'm more of a Johnny.

I read most of that Wizard article. If you force me to choose, I would be a Spike, but it's not completely accurate. Sirlin's explanation is much simpler and more accurate than Wizard's.

You mention that some people define winning differently from me. It's not like I defined winning. The game itself does that. If the game says you win, you win. If the game says you lose, you lose. As long as you don't cheat and hack and break the rules, if you win the game, you win the game. You are trying to make it more complicated than it really is.

The goal of a game like Mario Kart is to win the race. There are rules built into the game that allow and disallow certain things. You, the player, are given choices for what character or kart to use, and when actually racing, you have control over your kart and the items you acquire. You have one objective, and that is to win the race. The higher your ranking, the more points you get after the race.

You can talk all you want about different players and how they have different opinions, beliefs or viewpoints about winning, having fun and how the game should be played. The game itself already tells you that. If for whatever reason, you prefer losing over winning, you can do that, but don't go and complain about not winning later.

All it takes is understanding this simple concept, and you will automatically be one of the best players. That's because the vast majority of players cannot understand it, or they choose to think something else.

When I get Mario Kart 7, I will learn the controls and rules of the game. I will learn about the different characters, karts, courses, items and abilities. Once that's done, I will use everything available to me to win races. I will learn from my mistakes and use them to improve myself further. I will learn advanced techniques involving driving and items. I will play as the best character/kart combination, regardless of how ugly it may look.

I will win, or improve myself trying. And all of this will be extremely fun to me. Ideally, I would be racing against equally skilled opponents. That's when Mario Kart is the most fun.

Looking forward to racing you, Johnny.

[MrPopo]

You're missing the point. There's a difference between winning inside the rules of the game and feeling like you have won. In your case, you get your maximal enjoyment from winning according to the rules of the game, by any means necessary. That's classic Spike. But many other people are less concerned with the end goal of winning and are more concerned with the journey. Everyone enjoys winning, but that enjoyment can be tarnished if you don't feel good about how you won. That's why I think you're oversimplifying. And a good game caters to the different personalities. That's how you maintain a large base, rather than just reducing to the hardcore tournament scene.

[Inazuma]

You're missing the point. There's a difference between winning inside the rules of the game and feeling like you have won. In your case, you get your maximal enjoyment from winning according to the rules of the game, by any means necessary. That's classic Spike. But many other people are less concerned with the end goal of winning and are more concerned with the journey. Everyone enjoys winning, but that enjoyment can be tarnished if you don't feel good about how you won. That's why I think you're oversimplifying. And a good game caters to the different personalities. That's how you maintain a large base, rather than just reducing to the hardcore tournament scene.

There is also a difference between feeling like you have won, and actually winning.

I know your type. You lose the race, but convince yourself that you won because your opponent broke one of your personal rules. Even though he had no idea what your personal rules are, he broke them in order to win, so that makes him a cheater. And if he is a cheater, his win doesn't count. You are the real winner because you didn't cheat.

You can play Mario Kart like that if you want. I'll race you a few times, easily win, and then probably get bored because it's not very fun or interesting racing against someone who isn't even trying to win.

[pepharytheworm]

Start placing your bets. Inazuma vs. MrPopo in Mario Kart 7.


Just to clarify a point of yours Inazuma,. You said that you will use the best Kart/Character combination. Now lets say a player uses what you deem the worst Kart/Character combo, and while doesn't win nearly beats you. Would your victory feel as complete? Would you really feel like a winner?

[MrPopo]

I know your type. You lose the race, but convince yourself that you won because your opponent broke one of your personal rules. Even though he had no idea what your personal rules are, he broke them in order to win, so that makes him a cheater. And if he is a cheater, his win doesn't count. You are the real winner because you didn't cheat.

You can play Mario Kart like that if you want. I'll race you a few times, easily win, and then probably get bored because it's not very fun or interesting racing against someone who isn't even trying to win.

Again, you don't get it. I don't begrudge you for winning at any cost. And when I beat you with my zany strategy I take that much more satisfaction from it. If I lose I lose, but I'd rather lose my way than win your way. I don't see you using the most effective strategy as cheating. Now there are people out there like that, but that doesn't encompass everyone who isn't trying to min/max their way to victory.

[Inazuma]

Start placing your bets. Inazuma vs. MrPopo in Mario Kart 7.


Just to clarify a point of yours Inazuma,. You said that you will use the best Kart/Character combination. Now lets say a player uses what you deem the worst Kart/Character combo, and while doesn't win nearly beats you. Would your victory feel as complete? Would you really feel like a winner?

Well, I would have won fair and square, so of course I would. Character/kart selection is part of the game and what you choose can affect your performance in the race.

Even better than your example, what if I lose a race because I got hit by a blue shell just before the finish line? Would I be upset that luck was the only reason that I lost?

Nope. Luck and an item based handicap system are part of the game. There is nothing wrong with winning because you get better items. If I lose because of that, that's totally fine. If I lose many times for this reason, then I must be the lesser player, despite being faster at driving. I know how sometimes it is advantageous to actually not be in first place, because of how the item system works. Purposely letting someone pass you, so you can have a higher chance of getting a good item is a perfectly legitimate strategy. Depending on the situation, it may be worth doing.

The only time I will have a problem with other players is if they don't try to win, and it's a very boring race with no challenge, or if they accuse me of being a cheater because I broke their imaginary rules.

Honestly, the best race would be one where I lose. Really. Losing is ideal because it provides the best opportunity for improvement. If I play against someone like YoshiEgg and he destroys me, I will be super fucking happy and want to keep playing him so I can learn from watching him, and also learn from my own mistakes.

Losing is probably the best way to win, if that makes any sense. In other words, improving yourself is more important than winning every race. The more skilled you become, the more races you will be able to win in the future.

[Inazuma]

Again, you don't get it. I don't begrudge you for winning at any cost. And when I beat you with my zany strategy I take that much more satisfaction from it. If I lose I lose, but I'd rather lose my way than win your way. I don't see you using the most effective strategy as cheating. Now there are people out there like that, but that doesn't encompass everyone who isn't trying to min/max their way to victory.

You see it as "my way" and "your way". I see it as Mario Kart. >_>