Yeah...I really like The Last Jedi, but if The Rise of Skywalker is like The Force Awakens, then...Ziggy587 wrote:LOL, OK, bad example for this thread. The sequel trilogy sucks.
Prequel Trilogy > Sequel Trilogy
Avoiding Spoilers & Reveals
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prfsnl_gmr
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Re: Avoiding Spoilers
Prequel Trilogy > Sequel Trilogy
Re: Avoiding Spoilers
As much of a mess JJ Abrams’ material is, it is at least entertaining in the moment. The prequel movies made me cringe at every turn due to the horrible dialogue and character moments. I will likely be unable to return to either trilogy.prfsnl_gmr wrote:Yeah...I really like The Last Jedi, but if The Rise of Skywalker is like The Force Awakens, then...
Prequel Trilogy > Sequel Trilogy
Re: Avoiding Spoilers
The front cover is a spoiler...
If you have never seen the movie before (hard to imagine for people our age but think of the younger generation) and you took note of this cover, as soon as you see those vehicles and it starts raining you'll know that the T-Rex is about to attack. They also made covers for The Lost World and JP3 that are also scenes from the movie, but they're more generic and nothing that would stick in your head. This JP1 cover is very specific though. Even though the vehicle upside down and partially obscured, it's very distinctive. Then you have the park fence clear in view and can see that there's a track on the ground. These are stand out things in the movie, mostly because they're very much pointed out with dialog. Once you see that vehicle for the first time on screen your brain should make the connection. Thus, the cover to the movie is a spoiler!
It might be easy to forget because I'm sure we've all seen this movie a bunch of times. But the T-Rex is talked about but not seen on screen until this scene. You hear that they have a T-Rex when they first get to the island. Then when they're on the tour, it's eerily missing when they get to that area. Then it starts to rain and gets very dark, then the power goes out and it turns into almost a horror movie. "Where's the goat?" You see the claw testing the electric fence, then you see the head through the windows of the car but obscured because of the rain. It's such a slow reveal until you finally see the entire T-Rex on screen. You see the fence twisting and breaking, but you don't see the T-Rex doing it. Then when he finally busts out of the fence, and you finally see the entire dinosaur on screen for the first time, one of the most tense and awesome action sequences in any movie start to play out. Now imagine you're watching this for the first time but you know the T-Rex is about to attack them and that a vehicle gets flipped upside down. I would say it ruins one of the best, if not THE best sequences in the movie.
So I really think this cover sucks. For someone that has never seen the movie, now you know exactly when this scene will occur because the setup is too specific. They're in those vehicles when it's raining, that's when you know it's coming. Then you know that Grant will be outside of the vehicles at some point with a lit flare. You KNOW this because Grant's appearance is very distinct with that hat. And you KNOW that one of the two vehicles will be flipped upside down.
What's next? Let's make this the next home release cover for Empire Strikes Back...
If you have never seen the movie before (hard to imagine for people our age but think of the younger generation) and you took note of this cover, as soon as you see those vehicles and it starts raining you'll know that the T-Rex is about to attack. They also made covers for The Lost World and JP3 that are also scenes from the movie, but they're more generic and nothing that would stick in your head. This JP1 cover is very specific though. Even though the vehicle upside down and partially obscured, it's very distinctive. Then you have the park fence clear in view and can see that there's a track on the ground. These are stand out things in the movie, mostly because they're very much pointed out with dialog. Once you see that vehicle for the first time on screen your brain should make the connection. Thus, the cover to the movie is a spoiler!
It might be easy to forget because I'm sure we've all seen this movie a bunch of times. But the T-Rex is talked about but not seen on screen until this scene. You hear that they have a T-Rex when they first get to the island. Then when they're on the tour, it's eerily missing when they get to that area. Then it starts to rain and gets very dark, then the power goes out and it turns into almost a horror movie. "Where's the goat?" You see the claw testing the electric fence, then you see the head through the windows of the car but obscured because of the rain. It's such a slow reveal until you finally see the entire T-Rex on screen. You see the fence twisting and breaking, but you don't see the T-Rex doing it. Then when he finally busts out of the fence, and you finally see the entire dinosaur on screen for the first time, one of the most tense and awesome action sequences in any movie start to play out. Now imagine you're watching this for the first time but you know the T-Rex is about to attack them and that a vehicle gets flipped upside down. I would say it ruins one of the best, if not THE best sequences in the movie.
So I really think this cover sucks. For someone that has never seen the movie, now you know exactly when this scene will occur because the setup is too specific. They're in those vehicles when it's raining, that's when you know it's coming. Then you know that Grant will be outside of the vehicles at some point with a lit flare. You KNOW this because Grant's appearance is very distinct with that hat. And you KNOW that one of the two vehicles will be flipped upside down.
What's next? Let's make this the next home release cover for Empire Strikes Back...
Re: Avoiding Spoilers
Ziggy, there's something even worse.
When the MOVIE POSTER spoils the ending:
edit: I just went back a page... missed the Star Wars pic. 
I haven't seen that one. Don't really plan on it any way.
When the MOVIE POSTER spoils the ending:
I haven't seen that one. Don't really plan on it any way.
Re: Avoiding Spoilers
The sequel trilogy is really well made fan fiction.
Re: Avoiding Spoilers
Add me to the weirdos who don't care about spoilers. It's such an unusual modern practice. The audience of ancient epics, tragedies, and other works already knew the story in full. What happens isn't important. It's everything else.
I actually think the emphasis on spoilers, gotchas, and twist endings is what ruined good storytelling. Instead of characterization, motive, imagery, interesting diction, we get The Twist Ending. Everything has turned into a whodunnit, but to my mind it only matters if the story is otherwise not that interesting. Often I'll get sick of awful dialogue and sloppy pacing by reading the Wiki page on it and skipping the rest. But the great movies I can watch and watch again, often enjoying it even more the second or third time, because it's not the The Twist I'm after, but everything else. And it's the little things that make a story great, not some farcical "He was dead all along!" That works once or twice, but by now surprise plot points bore me.
That said, I think Ziggy's points above have merit. But I wonder how many people are paying too close attention to the Bluray cover? Maybe that scene stands out because we've seen it so many times? You buy the movie, plop it in, watch it, and experience it all over again, that cover long forgotten until you see it happen. That'll be deja vu, but up to that point you're theoretically still engrossed.
I actually think the emphasis on spoilers, gotchas, and twist endings is what ruined good storytelling. Instead of characterization, motive, imagery, interesting diction, we get The Twist Ending. Everything has turned into a whodunnit, but to my mind it only matters if the story is otherwise not that interesting. Often I'll get sick of awful dialogue and sloppy pacing by reading the Wiki page on it and skipping the rest. But the great movies I can watch and watch again, often enjoying it even more the second or third time, because it's not the The Twist I'm after, but everything else. And it's the little things that make a story great, not some farcical "He was dead all along!" That works once or twice, but by now surprise plot points bore me.
That said, I think Ziggy's points above have merit. But I wonder how many people are paying too close attention to the Bluray cover? Maybe that scene stands out because we've seen it so many times? You buy the movie, plop it in, watch it, and experience it all over again, that cover long forgotten until you see it happen. That'll be deja vu, but up to that point you're theoretically still engrossed.
I just found out right now by reading this thread... But I didn't find myself enjoying the sequel trilogy, and the two times I tried to watch The Last Jedi I stopped in the same place - right around that mad dasher guy decided to skip the chain of command and communicate with the bug-eyed woman about something or another. I couldn't even care about it.Sload Soap wrote:To be honest Ziggy, you've done amazing to get this far without it being spoiled so whatever you do works. That or you don't work with douchebags.
Re: Avoiding Spoilers
So as Sload Soap pointed out on the last page, I'm kind of using the term "spoiler" incorrectly. Don't get me wrong, I don't like spoilers of major plot points or endings. But I guess I'm using the term spoilers to encompass learning anything about the movie in a more broad kind of way. So to your point, "it's everything else," that's really what I'm talking about.o.pwuaioc wrote:Add me to the weirdos who don't care about spoilers. It's such an unusual modern practice. The audience of ancient epics, tragedies, and other works already knew the story in full. What happens isn't important. It's everything else.
I don't know, maybe that's most people and I'm the minority, but I love looking at covers. Video games, music albums, and movies. It's the kind of thing that I'll look at in great detail in a short amount of time, and I have a weird memory. It might be easy for me to say now because I've already seen the movie, but I believe this cover would have spoiled this part of the movie for me.o.pwuaioc wrote:That said, I think Ziggy's points above have merit. But I wonder how many people are paying too close attention to the Bluray cover? Maybe that scene stands out because we've seen it so many times? You buy the movie, plop it in, watch it, and experience it all over again, that cover long forgotten until you see it happen. That'll be deja vu, but up to that point you're theoretically still engrossed.
Re: Avoiding Spoilers
OK, a couple of things...
This cover actually spoilers the ending of the first JP...
However, there's a lot less stand out things to take note of so it might not be as easy to see coming as I think it would be for the scene that the other cover has. Still, that banner is very prominently shown when they walk into the visitors center for the first time, and IIRC you see it a number of times. I think the only thing that would keep it from spoiling the ending for someone who never seen the movie before is the fact that movie covers are never actual scenes from the movie. Usually they are a few or many things that are in the movie strewn together. So if that's what you think this cover is then you might not take enough note of it to ruin the ending.
For the first cover that I showed above that spoils the first T-Rex attack, you could argue that it's given away in the original trailer:
But here's the thing, JP came out in 1993. You saw that trailer maybe in the theater but probably only at home on TV (and the TV trailers were usually shorter). These days, when a trailer is released, the internet breaks down and examines every second of footage and speculates everything to death. We didn't do that in 1993. The scenes of the T-Rex attack in this trailer do include the overturned vehicles, but it goes by so quick that you can't take note of it. You do see the T-Rex a number of times, but never the full thing in frame (just the foot, the eye, et cetera). You see it walk past Grant and Ian when they're in the car, but you don't see enough of the it to even know for sure that it is T-Rex. You also see Lex shining the flashlight into T-Rex's eye through the car window, but again, you don't even know that's the T-Rex and you don't know she's in a car. You would probably assume she was inside a building looking through a window. And again, these clips go by very fast so you wouldn't have time to examine anything.
This cover actually spoilers the ending of the first JP...
For the first cover that I showed above that spoils the first T-Rex attack, you could argue that it's given away in the original trailer:
But here's the thing, JP came out in 1993. You saw that trailer maybe in the theater but probably only at home on TV (and the TV trailers were usually shorter). These days, when a trailer is released, the internet breaks down and examines every second of footage and speculates everything to death. We didn't do that in 1993. The scenes of the T-Rex attack in this trailer do include the overturned vehicles, but it goes by so quick that you can't take note of it. You do see the T-Rex a number of times, but never the full thing in frame (just the foot, the eye, et cetera). You see it walk past Grant and Ian when they're in the car, but you don't see enough of the it to even know for sure that it is T-Rex. You also see Lex shining the flashlight into T-Rex's eye through the car window, but again, you don't even know that's the T-Rex and you don't know she's in a car. You would probably assume she was inside a building looking through a window. And again, these clips go by very fast so you wouldn't have time to examine anything.
Re: Avoiding Spoilers
I wouldn't really call all that stuff spoilers for Jurassic Park. Or, really, that being the sort of movie particularly subject to spoilers.
Someone watching it for the first time, like 12 year old me when it came out in theaters, is going in knowing that the dinosaurs will run amok, and that's all those covers are really showing. They aren't revealing if people escape, or which. It's not all that uncommon to have some elements from the movie tossed onto the cover or poster.
The t-rex scene is a classic, but it wasn't a secret when the movie was new. It was on lunchboxes, the cover of coloring books, posters (I had one!), etc. So, it'd be understandable that they'd feel it's fair game to use on the cover. Personally, my complaint with those covers would instead be that they look cheap. I know the logo on the black background is basic, but that's the classic look. Or commission a painting or something. The movie deserves better than a screen capture on the cover. At least filter it for that fake-painted ones like they did for the Indiana Jones sets
The Rise of Skywalker, aka, Cavalcade of Fan Fiction Bullshit cover with the one X-Wing flying into the Star Destroyers could be called a spoiler too, but it's more subtle in that way (and as cool as it is, maybe not as a cover?). Even then, it's pretty far from giving away details of the movie that people might consider spoilers. The basic image is just showing the same conflict that's been going on for at least 2/3 of the movies.
Either way, there's a reasonable limit there. Lower the bar too much and nearly every superhero movie poster is spoiling that dramatic turn where they assume a secret identity. Given away in the title, costume spoiled on the poster.
Someone watching it for the first time, like 12 year old me when it came out in theaters, is going in knowing that the dinosaurs will run amok, and that's all those covers are really showing. They aren't revealing if people escape, or which. It's not all that uncommon to have some elements from the movie tossed onto the cover or poster.
The t-rex scene is a classic, but it wasn't a secret when the movie was new. It was on lunchboxes, the cover of coloring books, posters (I had one!), etc. So, it'd be understandable that they'd feel it's fair game to use on the cover. Personally, my complaint with those covers would instead be that they look cheap. I know the logo on the black background is basic, but that's the classic look. Or commission a painting or something. The movie deserves better than a screen capture on the cover. At least filter it for that fake-painted ones like they did for the Indiana Jones sets
The Rise of Skywalker, aka, Cavalcade of Fan Fiction Bullshit cover with the one X-Wing flying into the Star Destroyers could be called a spoiler too, but it's more subtle in that way (and as cool as it is, maybe not as a cover?). Even then, it's pretty far from giving away details of the movie that people might consider spoilers. The basic image is just showing the same conflict that's been going on for at least 2/3 of the movies.
Either way, there's a reasonable limit there. Lower the bar too much and nearly every superhero movie poster is spoiling that dramatic turn where they assume a secret identity. Given away in the title, costume spoiled on the poster.