Together Retro: First-Person Dungeon Crawlers

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Markies
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Re: Together Retro: First-Person Dungeon Crawlers

Post by Markies »

noiseredux wrote:My copy of Morrowind hasn't arrived yet. As soon as it does, I'll get cracking.


I could play Shining in the Darkness (GEN) or Morrowind (XBOX) for this month, but...

I am a bit RPG heavy at the moment. I'm currently playing two of them and I don't know when I am going to finish them. And when I do finish them, I don't think I'll be in the mood to play another RPG.

So, unfortunately, again, I will be sitting this one out.
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Xeogred
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Re: Together Retro: First-Person Dungeon Crawlers

Post by Xeogred »

Any good 16bit recommendations?

I dabbled into Legend of Grimrock last year and sunk some hours into it, I really enjoyed it but the puzzles were annoying and I got stuck. I've heard from some here (Ex) and around elsewhere that some people don't think it's that great compared to the rest of the genre. So... considering I liked it for the most part that has me pretty curious to play things that maybe influenced it and are better. I also don't mind the strict four way movement, gives it a cool feel.
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Ack
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Re: Together Retro: First-Person Dungeon Crawlers

Post by Ack »

marurun wrote:Just make sure to jump spastically up every hill and you’ll be leveling up in no-time!


Don't forget to set your character to auto-run into a corner for several hours! Free level ups AND you move faster.

Xeogred wrote:Any good 16bit recommendations?


Arcana, Dungeon Master, Eye of the Beholder, Wizardry 5, and Might and Magic III are all available on the SNES without needing to import. There are others too, though I don't want to recommend Obitus or Drakkhen to folks...
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Re: Together Retro: First-Person Dungeon Crawlers

Post by marurun »

If you want to play Might and Magic III on a console, consider the TurboDuo version. Very good port.
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Re: Together Retro: First-Person Dungeon Crawlers

Post by CFFJR »

And I would recommend the Sega CD version of Eye of the Beholder.

Also a great port, with a lovely soundtrack by Yuzo Koshiro.
GameSack wrote:That's right, only Sega had the skill to make a proper Nintendo game.
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Re: Together Retro: First-Person Dungeon Crawlers

Post by Exhuminator »

Sload Soap wrote:I might try and finish Eternal Ring, even if it is lesser Fromsoft.

I beat Eternal Ring many years ago and enjoyed it. Eternal Ring was actually the first FromSoftware FPDC I ever beat. It's one of the easiest FS-FPDCs (only STA is easier). But for what it lacks in challenge, Eternal Ring makes up for in atmosphere and sheer mystique. It's basically like if you mixed King's Field with Jewel Master. Here's a trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN3m7LyelI8

Nemoide wrote:The Dark Spire for Nintendo DS

Bless you for this. I will be very interested to read your final thoughts once you finish it. Of all the many FPDCs on DS, The Dark Spire is likely the most difficult... good luck!

Xeogred wrote:(Ex) and around elsewhere that some people don't think it's that great compared to the rest of the genre

Legend of Grimrock has nice graphics. That's all the good I have to say about it.

Xeogred wrote:Any good 16bit recommendations?

Ack covered you pretty well on SNES. There's more on SFC, like the first two SMTs have been English hacked for example. IIRC all the SFC Wizardry entries have been English translated also. On Genesis you've got Might and Magic: Gates to Another World and Shining in the Darkness. On PCE check out Lady Sword.

I know you're a Game Boy fan, so:

Mysterium
Sword of Hope II
The Sword of Hope
And there's a bunch of English translated Wizardry games on GB/GBC also.

marurun wrote:If you want to play Might and Magic III on a console, consider the TurboDuo version. Very good port.

Speaking of good TurboDuo FPDC ports. Somebody oughta check out this guy:

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Dungeon Master: Theron's Quest

It's not a straight port, it's a bit more streamlined and easier:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeon_M ... e_original
PLAY KING'S FIELD.
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Re: Together Retro: First-Person Dungeon Crawlers

Post by Ack »

Dragon Wars

Dragon Wars does have a couple of problems, one of which is that I'm not really sure what it is I am supposed to be doing beyond taking down the big villain, Namtar. There appear to be several ways to go about weakening his influence and making parts easier, but I'm not sure how all of it comes together. At times, I feel a little aimless as to what I should go do next, but at others I feel slightly overwhelmed by the possibilities of what I can go do.

That said, I still feel like I am making progress. Events transpire so that I know I am moving forward, if nothing else. I've amused one god, released another, opened a passage to the dwarven city and freed them from their stone prison, and found three of the four necessary pieces to repair a statue in Mud Toad. I've also killed a group of pirates to get access to their ship, which opens up a variety of places for me to go, and once I finish a run to a shop to sell a bunch of unneeded gear, I'll be heading to Freeport for what I believe is the last statue piece I need. There's also a special sword in Freeport, the Sword of Freedom... I have to find out how to get it.

I've also earned something called the Dragon Gem, but I haven't used it yet. There is a place called the Valley of Dragons. I wonder if I can use it there, but considering I don't want to have to take on a dragon, I'm a little hesitant to push into it.

Stats play an important part in Dragon Wars, but the game is also heavily gear-dependent. Having an AC of 15+ will negate large portions of damage, and weapons dictate your damage spread, which I believe is slightly enhanced by your Strength stat. I've discovered a nasty trick in the game with a weapon called the Gatlin Bow, which can apparently be fired in "Full Auto". I also have a Magic Quiver, which never runs out of arrows, but for the purposes of the Gatlin Bow there is a limit. This combo now enables Bone to easily outdo all other characters in damage output, though Ack, Popo, and Elkin all have higher-tiered weapons that are giving them better damage outputs. Unfortunately, certain tougher enemies can still one-shot folks if they hit, so I often go in and use my tanks to block while Bone mows down whatever gets in my way. It's an effective tactic against smaller groups.

Speaking of which, let's talk about combat. Dragon Wars is one of those games that requires you put in all commands at once and then executes them. It also has packs of enemies that are grouped and can be at varying distances. For example, you may encounter A) 5 King's Guard at 30' and B) 6 Pikemen at 70'. Groups may move up towards you for melee action or may hammer you with spells while you try to advance under the barrage. From what I can tell, if you attack a group, your attacks will randomly target individuals within the group, so it isn't easy to focus fire. Spells often make up the difference, and some of the best offensive spells don't care about groupings, they just hit every enemy in range.

Skills also play a part, with weapon skills giving you a bonus to hit based on how many points you have. This stat is not reflected in your overall attack stat because it is weapon-specific. The nice thing about weapons is that you can examine them to determine the class of weapon (sword, ax, flail, etc.) as well as any requirements needed to equip it. Most skills only need a single point for benefit, though magic skills allow you to channel more magic points into certain spells for boosted damage. The most crucial skill, however, is Bandage, which lets you heal up to a max of 10 + the healing characters Bandage skill. In short, if I have a character with 17 hp and a healer with 4 in Bandage, the most I can do is get that character up to 14/17 hp. While hp doesn't drop nearly as fast as stun, so it's easier for characters to be knocked out (meaning they will survive the combat but not be useful), some enemies will be able to flat out kill a character, and that is a massive pain in the ass. Resurrections can only occur at one place, so keep your health up by bandaging after every fight.

It's an interesting system, but I am greatly enjoying working my way through the game and discovering new things as I go. There is a lot of hidden stuff in Dragon Wars that you may never fully discover. Just keep coming back and see what you can find out.
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Re: Together Retro: First-Person Dungeon Crawlers

Post by Exhuminator »

I never knew much about Dragon Wars until you started talking about it. It does sound like an interesting experience, and unique in some ways. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

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I want to take another stab at recommending Arx Fatalis to everyone.

Arx Fatalis is basically Ultima Underworld III in spirit. It was developed by Arkane Studios (of Dishonored fame). This is a realtime first person dungeon crawler with high interactivity and amazing atmosphere. I myself played through Arx Fatalis back in 2005, and had a very good time. More people should play it! You can get Arx Fatalis on GOG or Steam. There was also an Xbox port. I only played the PC version, so I can't say anything about the quality (or lack of quality) of the Xbox port. I do know the Xbox version changes the amazing mouse-rune-tracing spellcasting of the PC version into simple d-pad inputs.

I found the official trailer on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJmG0433rto

Yep, Arx Fatalis is recommended heartily by some guy you don't know on the internet.

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Mazes of Fate DS

I put three more hours into this last night while sitting outside on my front porch under a full moon. Solved a lot of tricky puzzles in a very large dungeon, came across a few enemies that were legit tough (Dream Demons are bastards). Finished a few optional sidequest dungeons as well. I dumped one of my party members because he dared question my leadership, and replaced him with a friendly mage-ranger hybrid. I'd guess I'm about 2/3rds the way through this game now. Good times.
PLAY KING'S FIELD.
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marurun
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Re: Together Retro: First-Person Dungeon Crawlers

Post by marurun »

Arx Fatalis is indeed unique. It's good overall, but it does have some wonky spots.
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Re: Together Retro: First-Person Dungeon Crawlers

Post by Ack »

Exhuminator wrote:I never knew much about Dragon Wars until you started talking about it. It does sound like an interesting experience, and unique in some ways. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.


I do what I can. It's a game I had experience with as a kid at a friend's house, but we could never figure it out, so it's been another one of those journeys of self-discovery white whale kinda things to finally go back and play it. I find something about it...cathartic. Here is my childhood, returned to me, yet now I am older and wiser to its ways.

Objectively, it isn't perfect, but I still find it has its charms, and I appreciate it. I'd happily recommend it to folks like you, Sarge, Bone, Popo, Marurun, etc. I'm curious what I will play after this and which forum folks I'll bring with me.
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