☠ Souls Series Symposium ☠

[Exhuminator]

The Surge continues to look pretty cool.

It does look cool. Is this the first soulslike with a sci-fi bent?

[Exhuminator]

[MrPopo]

That's a pretty accurate summation.

[Xeogred]

Yeah that's basically the ending(s) for these.

The Surge continues to look pretty cool.

It does look cool. Is this the first soulslike with a sci-fi bent?

I believe so. It's still the Lords of the Fallen devs, they don't seem to be shy about their influences at all. But looks like they keep improving and this one could be solid.

[Xeogred]

I'm going to post my story about Demon's and the dragon here:

re: Games of loneliness and contemplative solitude

It's hard to pull off in 2D, but when done well, it can't be topped. Metroid/Super and Flashback are some good calls.

I had a powerful moment last year when I replayed Demon's Souls.

First, there is a "Nexus" in Demon's, which is your hub world. It is a small, enclosed temple. There are no windows. It has an angelic atmosphere to it. Is it heaven, or hell, or neither? You have no idea what or where it is. This Nexus teleports you to locations that may or may not have any direct connection whatsoever. You feel like a mere speck in this infinite world. You're already small.

There is a large section of a level that is a huge bridge for miles. This bridge is stage 1-2 of this level, the entire bridge is basically the stage. As you approach the bridge and start your trek through it, a roaring dragon comes soaring through and smothers it with fire. The dragon never stops ravaging the bridge. Roaring across the skies, killing and burning enemies on the bridge with friendly fire, not caring at all. It wants you dead. So you have to time your desperate sprints to the checkpoint towers for safety. So I cleared out all the enemies at these two towers throughout the bridge, because you can in a gimmicky way kill the dragon, permanently (whereas most respawn after warping to and from levels). Finally after hundreds of arrows and probably 20 some minutes, the dragon died.

And then there was silence.

The dragon was gone. The roaring in the air and the rumbling of the bridge came to a halt. The bridge was decorated by dead bodies everywhere. There is no BGM. No NPC's for days. There was absolute nothingness. I walked around with no life around me in sight. There was nothing to do. I was a lost soul in a giant dead fortress and forgotten city. Suddenly ... I missed the dragon. I felt guilty, terrible, and afraid. It was too quiet and empty. I was completely alone. If this isn't hell, I don't know what is.

[Exhuminator]

I missed the dragon. I felt guilty, terrible, and afraid.

To be fair, that dragon is a jerk.

[Xeogred]

You haven't seen the worst part yet.

[MrEco]

I love this series, it's one of my all time favorites. Now as for your questions:

1) My first experience with the Souls' series was Demon's Souls. And honestly I was both excited and afraid. I had never really played a game so difficult (or at least, so hyped up to be difficult) before. But I thought the setting looked so cool that I wanted to try it regardless. I honestly went into the game worried that I would never be able to beat it. In fact I almost didn't since I made an awful character my first time through and ended up restarting with a new build.

2) N/A

3) Well the thing that hooked me into the series was the setting and atmosphere. It's a sort that's still quite rare nowadays, and I'd say that's probably the most unique aspect of the series as a whole. However there is much else to enjoy, like the lore, music, combat mechanics, etc.

4) I can't possibly pick a single moment to be my favorite moment. There's too many. But my worst is a bit easier. Two bosses from Demon's Souls that I remember giving me incredible amounts of stress in my first playthrough. The Man Eaters, and Flamelurker. I must have spent hours trying to beat those bosses long ago, when I was much less experienced with the series.

5) Can't honestly say I have a single favorite build. I tend to experiment with a lot of different weapons, armors, and spells. But if I had to pick, one thing I keep coming back too quite often is Pyromancy. Love me some fire based antics.

6) I get the feeling they have had an influence. Games pop up here and there with stamina bars that limit your various actions. In the indie scene especially there have been a lot of "Souls-Likes." Unfortunately I don't pay enough attention to say anything more definitive.

7) So far the only one I've played was the DLC for Dark Souls 1. It was fantastic. I'm currently working my way through the Scholar of the First Sin edition of Dark Souls 2 though, which includes the DLC, so I look forward to playing them.

8 ) I believe it's warranted to a degree. The Souls games do tend to be harder than your average modern game. On top of that even compared to other hard games, the Souls games require a very different skill set that can take some adjusting for even experienced gamers to get use to. With that said though, I don't think I would ever describe them as brutally difficult, or unfair. I've personally had a much harder time with games such as Devil May Cry 3, or Ninja Gaiden.

9) Depending on what mood I'm in, either Demon's Souls or Dark Souls 1 is my favorite. I would have to write several paragraph's to describe the subtle differences between each that make it impossible for me to settle on one over the other. I may do this later. Second to those is Bloodborne, and then Dark Souls 2 and 3 are sort of tied for last place. Each of them are great games in their own rights, but were disappointing in a few ways.

10) I would want more of the games in the series to follow the Dark Souls 1 style of world structure. Almost every area being interconnected, like they would in the real world, and only limited fast travel so that getting from point A to B isn't just a load screen away. Also I would really enjoy some more honest puzzles, rather than combat making up 99% of all obstacles.



Now, I have a question for you if you don't mind Exhuminator. Now that you've played most of the Souls games, how would you compare them to King's Field? Perhaps more importantly, do you even think they're similar enough that comparing them is fair?

[Exhuminator]

Now, I have a question for you if you don't mind Exhuminator. Now that you've played most of the Souls games, how would you compare them to King's Field? Perhaps more importantly, do you even think they're similar enough that comparing them is fair?

I have not played most of the Souls games. I own most of the Souls games, but I've only played Demon's Souls. I'm currently playing through it actually.

There are some big differences between King's Field and the Souls series. By no means is the Souls series a "spiritual successor" as many claimed. Factually FromSoftware has come out on record to state explicitly that the Souls series is NOT a spiritual successor to the King's Field series. Or even the Shadow Tower series for that matter. But, based on the fact that I've beaten every King's Field (as well as the rest of FromSoftware's first person dungeon crawlers), I can tell you how Demon's Souls differs...

King's Field is first person. Demon's Souls is third person. This is a big deal and explicitly ties in to the next paragraph.

Demon's Souls is all about combat, combat, combat. Every bit of its gameplay is focused explicitly on hardcore technical fighting, and exploration comes second. That's the opposite of Kings' Field. King's field is about exploring, exploring, exploring, and combat always comes second. Because Demon's Souls is about melee combat (mostly) it makes sense to make the camera third person, to give the player more situational awareness. However, because King's Field is about exploration, it makes sense to have the game played from first person. First person is more immersive due to being more intimate, and therefore a better conduit for exploration.

King's Field games have tremendous amounts of secrets in them. We're talking secrets inside of secrets inside of secrets. And good lord all the hidden doors! Demon's Souls doesn't have anywhere near the level of confusing secrets and stashed away goodies that King's Field does. But that's again tied to the KF exploration aspect.

Demon's Souls combat is significantly more difficult than King's Field. That's not to say there aren't some hard fights in the King's Field series (also especially in Shadow Tower 1), but nothing ever reaches the level of some of the bosses or black phantoms in Demon's Souls. You find just as many different types of weapons in the King's Field games (and even more in the Shadow Tower games) though.

King's Field's focus on exploration and puzzle solving creates a totally different set of challenges. Honestly, King's Field can be just as difficult as Demon's Souls, only in a different way. It can be brutally hard not to get lost in KF2, or easy to get stuck on some puzzles in KF3, for example. However most of King's Field's challenges can be mitigated with a walkthrough. If someone was so inclined they could guide-dang-it through King's Field's hardest challenges. But with Demon's Souls, since it requires real-time-skill-and-reflexes, a guide can only help so much.

I think the easiest way to explain the difference is; King's Field requires brains and Demon's Souls requires brawn. Depending on your proficiency with either stat, one or the other will be harder for you. I find Demon's Souls to be harder than King's Field, only because it requires a level of third person technical melee skill I'm not particularly well studied in. I'm not a guy who beat the modern Ninja Gaiden or Devil May Cry games for example. So I've been going through a readjustment period. But even so, the technical nature of the fights, including their physics and weight, remind me of Monster Hunter more than anything else. I can see a lot of Monster Hunter influence in Demon's Souls. Actually you know what? Demon's Souls is basically Monster Hunter + Shadow Tower 1. Really, that's what it is.

Lastly... I really do wish that all you fans of the Souls series would go back and play through all the King's Fields and Shadow Towers. Those games are just as good as Demon's Souls, I can tell you that much wholeheartedly. Some of you played through King's Field IV, I know. And that's fantastic! But every other King's Field (and Shadow Tower) offers their own unique game design, special challenges, interesting world layouts, and exclusive rewards for playing through them. I know the graphics are kinda crusty, but after playing for a few hours you won't even notice that anymore. You'll be too absorbed having some of the best adventures of your gaming life.

[MrEco]

I have not played most of the Souls games. I own most of the Souls games, but I've only played Demon's Souls. I'm currently playing through it actually.

Ah, my mistake, I must've misread that bit.

Also I think you've hit the nail on the head with your comparison between the two series. They're actually very different, and I often feel like it's a huge shame when people pass off Kings Field as just "slower Souls in first person." If you boil down the core of a Souls game, it's an action RPG. If you did the same with King's Field, it would be a metroidvania title I think. In my opinion, direct comparisons don't do either game justice. Though I do think it's fair to talk about them together, since they're made by the same company and one did clearly influence the other to a degree.

Lastly... I really do wish that all you fans of the Souls series would go back and play through all the King's Fields and Shadow Towers. Those games are just as good as Demon's Souls, I can tell you that much wholeheartedly. Some of you played through King's Field IV, I know. And that's fantastic! But every other King's Field (and Shadow Tower) offers their own unique game design, special challenges, interesting world layouts, and exclusive rewards for playing through them. I know the graphics are kinda crusty, but after playing for a few hours you won't even notice that anymore. You'll be too absorbed having some of the best adventures of your gaming life.

I've actually been meaning to start another KF soon. As you may remember, 4 is the only one I've played so far. But I've mostly been focusing on shorter games recently, to try and clear up some of my backlog.