As an adult player, why did you not "grow out of gaming"?

[o.pwuaioc]

If this is true, then a huge chunk of the damage and stigma behind video gaming seems to rest squarely on the assumption that women and girls don't game (and that they will also try to sabotage your gaming in one way or another)... which was an essential part of gaming's marketing message for at least a decade.

Woah.

I actually think that Nintendo is primarily to blame for this since they chose to reintroduce games in the US post-crash as toys instead of as electronics. That's why ROB was so emphasized in the early NES ads, for example.

And how are toys marketed? Some toys are for boys, some toys are for girls, and the advertisers have well worn tropes (such as those used to sell games) that they can (and did) use for each.

I think it is noteworthy that the older ads (pre-crash) focused on gaming as a family activity that was fairly gender/age blind. Marketing games as toys (which was smart, in many ways) had the added effect of gendering them and linking them with children...the irony is now that many companies (and, arguably, especially Nintendo) have been trying to fight back against that for at least the past fifteen years or so now to broaden their market share...

This is why any executive who emphasizes short-term gains over long-term profit should be fired on the spot.

[J T]

Wow. Great insight Key. I've never thought about how the sexism of 'who games are for' circles back around and kicks men in the face with a roundhouse reversal. I think you're onto something.

I hate those Dead Space 2 ads a lot more now.

[Jmustang1968]

I do know a lot of women who would hate for their significant other to game. Actually, that friend I discussed in my last post, his wife looks down on gaming as a waste of time, and is a big reason why he doesnt game much anymore. I know many who equate it with laziness and a fear that their partner would rather spend time playing a game than with them.

I know many guys in their 30s who game, maybe it is my field of engineering and having many IT friends. It is when you get into the 40+ and then especially 50+ crowd that the anti-game attitude is more prevalent.

[MrEco]

As others have said, I believe I've been lucky enough to avoid the social pressure that say's gaming is immature. Not entirely though.

One time when I was a child a distant relative of mine (I don't remember who) said "How are you gonna get a job one day if you spend all your time playing video games?"

Also more recently, about two years ago at this point, an uncle of mine was visiting us for about a week. One day while I was at work he went into my bedroom and actually looked at every video game I owned on my shelves, in particular he noticed I own a lot of violent looking games. He then told my family that I was going to become a serial killer later in life if they didn't "do something about it."

But besides that, it's been fine. My immediate family (mother, father, sisters) don't have any problems with me playing video games (And if they did, at this point I'm confident enough that I would ignore them and not let their opinions change my hobbies). In fact one of my sisters casually plays Diablo 3 and World of Warcraft because her fiance got her into them. And my girlfriend plays video games just as much as I do, so no problems there either.

Ironically though, my family does have some problem with me watching anime. Somehow my family has gotten the impression that all anime is intended for ten year old girls, so they act weird if I ever try to talk about anime around them. Unfortunately in that case, its gotten to the point where I just avoid talking about it around them because I don't want to put up with it.

[Exhuminator]

Somehow my family has gotten the impression that all anime is intended for ten year old girls

This literally made me laugh out loud. (Just picturing a ten year old girl watching Urotsukidoji, Berserk, Gantz, etc.)

[ElkinFencer10]

I think we'll see a decline in this as my generation gets older since mine is the generation that grew up with really deep, intense games. I love old games as much as anyone here (the retro part of my collection proves that), but it's easier for people to dismiss games like Pong and Pacman and even Super Mario Bros as juvenile and a waste of time than it is games like Final Fantasy VII, Eternal Darkness, and Spec Ops: The Line (to cite examples from three different generations). I'm not saying that there are no older games with depth - Legend of Zelda, Phantasy Star, and Adventure all disprove that - but really deep gaming experience have become (IMO) more common and more visible in recent years.

[marurun]

I think it is noteworthy that the older ads (pre-crash) focused on gaming as a family activity that was fairly gender/age blind. Marketing games as toys (which was smart, in many ways) had the added effect of gendering them and linking them with children...the irony is now that many companies (and, arguably, especially Nintendo) have been trying to fight back against that for at least the past fifteen years or so now to broaden their market share...

Those early systems were an attempt to bring arcade games into the home. And arcade games were found in bars early on, thus the cocktail cabinets. Adults would play Asteroids and Pac Man. When Atari brought games into the home they assumed that adults would at least be interested. It would be a natural transition.

I think you make a great point that a lot of the toy-ification of games did come from Nintendo. They were, after all, a toy company at the time (let's ignore their origins in playing cards for a moment).

And that is certainly a part of what Key points out as the beginning of the exclusion of girls from gaming, because robots and guns and toys like that are boy toys.

But I also want to reflect a moment on this idea that games are a hobby that "wastes" time and doesn't accomplish anything useful. Couldn't the same be said of watching sports on TV? But that, of course, is more culturally accepted.

[Xeogred]

You know ds doesn't seem wrong at all with that knock on Nintendo. I can easily see it. Especially through the Wii's lifetime as well, even for something so recent. All you'd ever see were ads with "families" with the main emphasis on the kids, never the parents or adults alone. Why?

Serious Key is awesome. That's some crazy insight to hear how you've had to battle with different stigmas as a female gamer than what males probably have to deal with, with the whole settling down thing and having to give up the hobby if they want a serious relationship.

And of course, the fact that there is such a huge market of "mature" video games aimed at today's adults only supports this theory. We kept growing and kept playing, so now companies are scrambling to react to this and abandon their established narrative that video games are primarily for children. But for many who saw the commercials in the 90s and were the Only Sane Man, they will never drop the association and will therefore conclude that gamers are immature folks who missed a developmental milestone.

This is a funny point as well that's so true. I think some podcast, Game Blitz (hosted by Kelsey who's on Metal Jesus' vids sometimes) recently brought up how the M rating seems to be the biggest target and demograph for game releases. Whereas with the movie industry PG or PG-13 is what they strive for. Probably a different discussion, but they're not wrong and it's kind of a funny reversal between the two mediums.

To throw a funny wrench in here, I think we could all say some similar stuff about super hero movies today. They are basically literally the biggest thing going right now. Who would have thought that ~15 years ago or something? Only basement dwellers read comics right? lol. I get the same amusement with seeing how insanely popular and accepted Star Wars has become as well.

Definitely some great discussions here, and as someone who was burn at the cusp of the 80's and grew up during the 90's, it's definitely been a crazy ride to see these insane waves of trends and transitions. What I was ridiculed for loving as a kid is now, frankly almost kind of over saturated, lol.

[o.pwuaioc]

This is mere speculation, but I wonder if it didn't have something to do with Japanese perceptions of video games v. more Western ones? "Kawaii" culture was in full swing by then, perhaps there was some influence that transferred over?

[ElkinFencer10]

This is mere speculation, but I wonder if it didn't have something to do with Japanese perceptions of video games v. more Western ones? "Kawaii" culture was in full swing by then, perhaps there was some influence that transferred over?

That may have worked back then, but I think the opposite is true these days...