Boyscouts snip from ticked thread

[dsheinem]

Where in the constitution does it suggest PP should pass out condoms in high schools (or middle schools in some cities)? I'm lost - by your contention if it's "legal" or in the constitution, or upheld by some supreme court decision, then it's ok? Then...what is your objection to the scouts again? I'm trying to catch a red herring here and i'm struggling.

My objection to BSA getting state funding is that they promote two things that have been declared illegal for almost all other state backed institutions to engage in:

-discrimination based on religion
-discrimination based on sexual orientation

These are illegal for public institutions to do. The DMV, the military, your courthouse - they can't turn you away for being atheist or gay. This is protected. So why can the BSA do it?

You might not like condoms in schools, but that is a moral objection, not a legal one. Tax money is always going to encounter moral arguments. I don't like that tax money funds stuff like war or the wallets of people who abuse some benefit programs, but I have no legal grounds to stand on with those objections.

[Hobie-wan]

@Queso - I think you made the point that some of us are suggesting. No one suggests that homosexuals are more prone to rape, rather, why put people in a position where they may be sexually attracted to someone they are mentoring.

Straight Men should not be overseeing young females in scout settings.
Straight Women should not be overseeing young males in scout settings.
Homosexual Men should not be overseeing young males in scout settings.
Homosexual Females should not be overseeing young females in scout settings.

Well shit. We'd better segregate classes in public school with matching gender teachers. Need to divide up pools and beaches by age and gender too as well as having age matching lifeguards since nobody can control themselves after seeing that sweet sweet flesh on display.

[AppleQueso]

@Queso - I think you made the point that some of us are suggesting. No one suggests that homosexuals are more prone to rape, rather, why put people in a position where they may be sexually attracted to someone they are mentoring.

Straight Men should not be overseeing young females in scout settings.
Straight Women should not be overseeing young males in scout settings.
Homosexual Men should not be overseeing young males in scout settings.
Homosexual Females should not be overseeing young females in scout settings.

Based on this, would you be okay with Homosexual Men overseeing young females in scout settings, or Homosexual Females overseeing young males? If it's just about eliminating potential sexual attraction, then that should be fine, right?

I believe the BSA's stance against homosexuality has far more to do with their religious ties than anything else.

[o.pwuaioc]

@Queso - I think you made the point that some of us are suggesting. No one suggests that homosexuals are more prone to rape, rather, why put people in a position where they may be sexually attracted to someone they are mentoring.

Straight Men should not be overseeing young females in scout settings.
Straight Women should not be overseeing young males in scout settings.
Homosexual Men should not be overseeing young males in scout settings.
Homosexual Females should not be overseeing young females in scout settings.

Well shit. We'd better segregate classes in public school with matching gender teachers. Need to divide up pools and beaches by age and gender too as well as having age matching lifeguards since nobody can control themselves after seeing that sweet sweet flesh on display.

It gets worse. I think we ought to alert child protective services, since mjmjr25 has a young daughter. He shouldn't be around her, lest he can't control himself.

[Jmustang1968]

@Queso - I think you made the point that some of us are suggesting. No one suggests that homosexuals are more prone to rape, rather, why put people in a position where they may be sexually attracted to someone they are mentoring.

Straight Men should not be overseeing young females in scout settings.
Straight Women should not be overseeing young males in scout settings.
Homosexual Men should not be overseeing young males in scout settings.
Homosexual Females should not be overseeing young females in scout settings.

Well shit. We'd better segregate classes in public school with matching gender teachers. Need to divide up pools and beaches by age and gender too as well as having age matching lifeguards since nobody can control themselves after seeing that sweet sweet flesh on display.

There is a level of intimacy in camping overnight that you just don't get with teachers or lifeguards. Dave where is the false equivalency here? No one said nobody can control themselves. But in a close mentoring relationship over a period of time there is risk of attraction and acting on that attraction in a moment of passion that may otherwise be avoided if not in that situation. A vast majority of people can either resist that temptation or not have it at all.

[prfsnl_gmr]

My objection to BSA getting state funding is that they promote two things that have been declared illegal for almost all other state backed institutions to engage in:

-discrimination based on religion
-discrimination based on sexual orientation

These are illegal for public institutions to do. The DMV, the military, your courthouse - they can't turn you away for being atheist or gay. This is protected. So why can the BSA do it?

The constitutionality of government funding for "faith based organizations" is an interesting question, and I do not believe it has been answered by the courts. Moreover, I suspect that finding someone with standing to contest the funding would be practically impossible; so, we may never get an answer. Accordingly, I think that funding for "faith based organizations", like the Boy Scouts, will probably end up being a political question.

[Jmustang1968]

@Queso - I think you made the point that some of us are suggesting. No one suggests that homosexuals are more prone to rape, rather, why put people in a position where they may be sexually attracted to someone they are mentoring.

Straight Men should not be overseeing young females in scout settings.
Straight Women should not be overseeing young males in scout settings.
Homosexual Men should not be overseeing young males in scout settings.
Homosexual Females should not be overseeing young females in scout settings.

Based on this, would you be okay with Homosexual Men overseeing young females in scout settings, or Homosexual Females overseeing young males? If it's just about eliminating potential sexual attraction, then that should be fine, right?

I believe the BSA's stance against homosexuality has far more to do with their religious ties than anything else.

Actually to me yes it would. If my daughter was older and the option was heterosexual or homosexual male, I would be more comfortable with the gay male

[mjmjr25]

^lulz. You compare a group of 100 people on a beach or 30 mixed gender people in a classroom to ONE male in a cabin with 4 or 5 young girls. Come correct.

Also - we're now pretending that God was just introduced to our nation's foundation as part of cold war ear warmongering?

Declaration: "nature's God", "Creator"
Constitution: "year of our Lord"

Everyone is so quick to point out "God" is not mentioned here or here or here. It is implied and is not mentioned ad nauseum by these vast majority CHRISTIAN men as they had tolerance beyond what some of us are even capable of, and recognize themselves and their forefathers escaped religious prosecution, so purposely did not douse these documents with religious text. However, let us not pretend these were not men of God.

[Hobie-wan]

There is a level of intimacy in camping overnight that you just don't get with teachers or lifeguards. Dave where is the false equivalency here? No one said nobody can control themselves. But in a close mentoring relationship over a period of time there is risk of attraction and acting on that attraction in a moment of passion that may otherwise be avoided if not in that situation. A vast majority of people can either resist that temptation or not have it at all.

I was making a ridiculous overstatement to go along with the others being thrown about.

[Retrodude]

^lulz. You compare a group of 100 people on a beach or 30 mixed gender people in a classroom to ONE male in a cabin with 4 or 5 young girls. Come correct.

Also - we're now pretending that God was just introduced to our nation's foundation as part of cold war ear warmongering?

Declaration: "nature's God", "Creator"
Constitution: "year of our Lord"

Everyone is so quick to point out "God" is not mentioned here or here or here. It is implied and is not mentioned ad nauseum by these vast majority CHRISTIAN men as they had tolerance beyond what some of us are even capable of, and recognize themselves and their forefathers escaped religious prosecution, so purposely did not douse these documents with religious text. However, let us not pretend these were not men of God.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_tripoli