Making piracy right

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Luke
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Re: Making piracy right

Post by Luke »

ninjainspandex wrote:
Jmustang1968 wrote:
ninjainspandex wrote:He would be found guilty of being a dick, the sentence is being hung
A hung dick?

Sorry, couldnt help myself...
Good i was worried no one would get it :P

Do you two have a lounge act or something? Span n' Stang?
ninjainspandex
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Re: Making piracy right

Post by ninjainspandex »

We'll be here all night, don't forget to tip your waitress.
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jfrost
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Re: Making piracy right

Post by jfrost »

[Moralistic anti-piracy post placeholder.]
Ivo
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Re: Making piracy right

Post by Ivo »

General_Norris wrote:
Ivo wrote:Your comparison(s) here suck. [...]If you pass by a street performer and don't tip him, you are not setting his salary to zero.
I beg your pardon? :lol:

Whether piracy removes the item or not from sale has no bearing on whether you are entitled to the work without the owner's permission, which you aren't.
Indeed, which is why I said that your main point was valid, but your comparison sucked.

I don't know what part of the street performer remark I made was confusing. The main point was that there is a difference between passing by one and not contributing, even if you stop and enjoy the act for a good while; and passing by one and taking his earned pile away. Only the later is theft, and only the later would be setting the "salary to zero".

Street performers may not like it when someone enjoys the fruits of their labour without paying, but they have to accept that they are performing in a way where people can "access the commodity" for free. This is generally legal actually. In their case it can even be legal (as far as I know and this depends on the country) to record the performance, provided they are doing it on an entirely public place. Most likely it stops being legal if you try to commercialize the recording without consent though.

In cases like TV series, recorded music and games content creators are lucky enough to have laws against piracy (although some of them may not make much sense, I agree with the general idea).
I think content creators should nonetheless understand the philosophy governing street performers, in the sense that they too are effectively "performing in a public place": by making their work available it necessarily goes out of their control to a great extent - even if many of them try unsuccessfully to retain control, often at great inconvenience to the paying customers (there are exceptions to this, like MMOs, but most "DRM" solutions end up proving ineffective and/or a nuisance to paying customers, and the actual enforcement of copyright law by authorities is also generally considered ineffective).

You can think of live performances by musicians, which are usually done in private spaces (and therefore can not be legally recorded - but often are), putting any content on the web, or think of stuff that can be easily copied (CDs, DVDs, mp3 files, whatever), games that have their DRM cracked quite near the release date. Whatever content is made available to consumers is prime for being recorded / copied / distributed without the creator consent.

You can say the same for goods - if you make them available they are prime for being stolen - but a huge difference is that by stealing X, the legitimate owner no longer has X, so it is taken more seriously (and rightly so) by authorities and is also easier to enforce the law - due to logistics and other reasons (one of which being that more people wouldn't steal even if they knew they wouldn't be caught, because there it is crystal clear that they are really harming the owner, and by how much).
What matters is that you are not the rightful owner so you can only access the commodity if and when he wishes to.

It's that simple.
This is obviously false. It may be true that you can only *legally* access the commodity if and when he wishes to. It is not that simple.
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Erik_Twice
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Re: Making piracy right

Post by Erik_Twice »

I'm kind of lost here because I don't see where are you going with this. My argument is simple.

If it's mine and I don't allow you to have it, then don't. Don't be a douchebag! :lol:

And you can easily be a douchebag. I can pee in your garden, throw garbage from my window to the street, read your diary, call you names on the internet and pirate The Spice Girls Live! without your consent but that would make me douche. So you "can" but you "ought not".


PD: This is not any more true than any other moral imperative is. You can find many situations where killing people is the right thing to do or where pirating a game is fine for any practical effects. But pirating Desperate Housewives (lol) because you don't think it's worth the price is not one of them.
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Ivo
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Re: Making piracy right

Post by Ivo »

General_Norris wrote:I'm kind of lost here because I don't see where are you going with this. My argument is simple.

If it's mine and I don't allow you to have it, then don't.
I generally agree, really.

The argument I'm making can be made very simple as well:

If you make it available in public, it is effectively no longer yours.

You put up your stuff on the net, you should know how that works.
The law may or may not be on your side depending on given specific cases, but the law is not necessarily correct in 100% of the cases and may not make much sense when considered carefully.
I agree that e.g. someone plagiarizing your work sucks, but to keep it simple lets keep it at the level of people just wanting to read your work.

So in your examples, if you allow lots of people, for free, to do X (X could be pee on your garden or reading your diary; or reading the writing you put up on the web) but then don't allow someone else from a different nationality the same access (e.g. put up a paywall) then don't be surprised some people of a different nationality will 1. go around the paywall and 2. not think they are being jerks for doing that. And I would be quite inclined to agree with them. Now, if you didn't let ANYONE do X (or at least the paywall was the same for everyone), then I would be more inclined to agree whole heartedly with you.

People should not be jerks (regardless of the likelihood of getting caught and prosecuted).

Ivo.
fastbilly1
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Re: Making piracy right

Post by fastbilly1 »

Luke wrote:I'm sure thousands of people have pirated copies of the original STAR WARS trilogy, but I surely haven't met them.
Yo
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Re: Making piracy right

Post by AppleQueso »

This thread pretty much took exactly the direction that everyone expected it to.

how boring
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RCBH928
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Re: Making piracy right

Post by RCBH928 »

General_Norris wrote:
kingmohd84 wrote:So if I wanted to watch Desperate Housewives , it will cost me $240 for the full show. Is this fair?
You are not entitled to someone's else work. If he wants to price it at one thousand dollars, it's his right. If he wants to give it for free, it's his right.

You don't have a say in the matter because it's not yours. Who are you to tell anyone how much to work for, much less an artist?

Do you work Kingmohd84? Would you let me set your salary at my whim? Do it for half a price, third of a price, free?
I actually agree with you , whoever creates something has the right to price it at whatever he wants . It is his.

On the other hand, I live in a country where no one ever will be judged for pirating. He can price his boxset at $240 or $2 million , he will not get anything back from me. lets see if that will be of any help for him.

In reality i wanted to meet half way , where the boxset will be priced reasonably , say $30 . I get an original boxset and the creator , say he makes a million in sales , will make a cool $30m . Or he can keep his imaginary $240, no one will buy the boxset, and I still get to see the show.
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Re: Making piracy right

Post by fastbilly1 »

kingmohd84 wrote:In reality i wanted to meet half way , where the boxset will be priced reasonably , say $30 . I get an original boxset and the creator , say he makes a million in sales , will make a cool $30m . Or he can keep his imaginary $240, no one will buy the boxset, and I still get to see the show.
Considering that show probably cost 3 million an episode, and the show has 23 episodes a season. That 30 million on DVD sales covers half of a season to make.

All in all $30 for a 23 episode season on dvd is not bad.
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