Gun Control

[dsheinem]

unless you pay for and carry special licenses, you cannot legally possess a weapon that can shoot fully automatic.

Is this federal law? What does it cost for the license, and is the extra cost intended to be prohibitive? Just curious...

I am all for rigorous gun legislation that requires proper checks, waiting limits, bans on certain military grade weapons, etc. But the basic idea of being able to own a handgun or a rifle for self defense, sport, or as a hobby is and should be a protected right. I can't conceptualize any fair gun legislation that would have stopped Aurora or, frankly, most gun-related crime.

[Curlypaul]

Can you imagine the London riots if you guys had guns?

I don't want to imagine what Athens would be like right now if we had guns like the Americans. I really believe that when social unrest appears in the states it will be impossible to contain it without it getting very VERY messy.

Agreed, those riots were appalling enough and would only have been worse had people had easy access to firearms.

[Menegrothx]

Maniacs like this can't be really controlled in any way (and they don't nessecarily need firearms), but you could eliminate most of America's gun violence by eliminating the root problem: poverty and socio-economic issues. But I guess it takes less tax dollars to collect guns away than it does to provide decent education and public services (and I guess that the Scandianavian welfare state model is evil socialism ). Gini coefficient has a correlation with murder rate

Vermont and New Hampshire have the least gun homicides in the United States despite the fact that they have one of the least restrictive gun laws in the country (if I'm not mistaken, Vermont has the least restrictive gun laws out of all the 50 states)
Some states with very restrictive gun laws however have a lot of gun homicides (like D.C), not to mention countries like Jamaica, Brazil and Mexico.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politi ... witzerland
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politi ... led_weapon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... icide_rate

The Swiss army has long been a militia trained and structured to rapidly respond against foreign aggression. Swiss males grow up expecting to undergo basic military training, usually at age 20 in the Rekrutenschule (German for "recruit school"), the initial boot camp, after which Swiss men remain part of the "militia" in reserve capacity until age 30 (age 34 for officers). Each such individual is required to keep his army-issued personal weapon (the 5.56x45mm Sig 550 rifle for enlisted personnel and/or the 9mm SIG-Sauer P220 semi-automatic pistol for officers, medical and postal personnel) at home

Unlike most European countries where permits to carry a concealed weapon is only issued to individuals who demonstrate a specific reason, in the Czech Republic it is a common part of the citizen's right to own guns and every holder of the category E license is allowed to carry a concealed weapon after the formal approval is given (no justification is needed). According to the law, the guns cannot be carried into the courts, or at demonstrations and mass meetings. It is also generally considered irresponsible to take guns to clubs or bars even though it is not explicitly prohibited by law.[6] Carrying a gun while drunk is however illegal and can lead to heavy fines or losing the gun license.

Carrying guns in schools and campuses is not prohibited by law and there are no so called "Gun-free zones".

Switzerland has a homicide rate of 0.66 while Czech Republic has a homicide rate of 1.67


New Hampshire, Vermont, Czech Republic and Switzerland aren't very multicultural so maybe they dont have as much ethnic conflicts as more diverse states and countries have? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_c ... phic_areas

[D.D.D.]

My point was, and always will be, that the kind of weaponry used in this morning's attacks should not be in the hands of civilians (the fact that they're manufactured at all is abhorrent, but that's a different matter). You're the one using rural sensibilities to justify them on a nation-wide level; it makes no difference to me if the hicks don't get them either. If you want to point out where I said otherwise, feel free. (And no, I don't share any country-ass masturbatory gun obsession. Not really a point of shame.)

Well said.

Well we have really strict gun laws, as far as I am aware no pistols of any kind are allowed any more. This kind of annoys the marksmen out there, and does nothing to deter the people that get hold of their guns illegally anyway.

But the fact is that we rarely see the levels or random violence seen at the Batman screening. Sure we still have murderers and hate crimes, but we rarely have the kind of attacks on random passers by that are seen in America. Personally I think that restricting the availability of guns can only help. Criminals will still be able to get them, but with less guns around it will be harder.

This. Good evidence that it does make a difference.

This debate with Americans always makes me laugh/cry.
Also this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... death_rate

Yeah and when you look at the list of countries above USA, they're not exactly in what I would call a good civil state so it doesn't surprise me at their stats unfortunately.


My last thing on this inane topic is, you semi-frequently hear about kids who found their parents' gun and accidentally shot one of their friends or siblings etc. How often do we hear that "thanks to my gun, I was able to fend off an intruder"?
And none of this will change so I can't waste any more time on this~

[Curlypaul]

Yeah the countries above the US all have long standing issues and problems with gang crime. Not saying that gangs arent a problem in the US or the UK, but generally tend to be more focused than the terrible attack in Colorado.

My last thing on this inane topic is, you semi-frequently hear about kids who found their parents' gun and accidentally shot one of their friends or siblings etc. How often do we hear that "thanks to my gun, I was able to fend off an intruder"?
And none of this will change so I can't waste any more time on this~

Sorry, are you saying that the occasional accident is more, or less frequent that people reporting using their guns in self defense?

[dsheinem]

Yeah the countries above the US all have long standing issues and problems with gang crime. Not saying that gangs arent a problem in the US or the UK, but generally tend to be more focused than the terrible attack in Colorado.

My last thing on this inane topic is, you semi-frequently hear about kids who found their parents' gun and accidentally shot one of their friends or siblings etc. How often do we hear that "thanks to my gun, I was able to fend off an intruder"?
And none of this will change so I can't waste any more time on this~

Sorry, are you saying that the occasional accident is more, or less frequent that people reporting using their guns in self defense?

As I understand it, most gun self defense comes from showing, not using the gun.

[Menegrothx]

This debate with Americans always makes me laugh/cry.
Also this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... death_rate

That's a stupid way to measure things. I mean more than half of USAs deaths come from suicides and countries like Switzerland, France, Canada and Finland all have a fairly high standing in that list because of suicides via firearms. I can guarantee you that pretty much any South American/African third world country has a hundred times more violence and murders than those countries. One of the safest and best countries/places on earth to live have the highest suicide rates in world (Japan, some of the safest states in the US like Hawaii, Denmark, Finland etc). That might lead to a high firearm related death rate, even though they are all around very safe places to live in otherwise.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/2 ... ide-rates/

[ZeroAX]

That's a stupid way to measure things. I mean more than half of USAs deaths come from suicides and countries like Switzerland, France, Canada and Finland all have a fairly high standing in that list because of suicides via firearms. I can guarantee you that pretty much any South American/African third world country has a hundred times more violence and murders than those countries. One of the safest and best countries/places on earth to live have the highest suicide rates in world (Japan, some of the safest states in the US like Hawaii, Denmark, Finland etc). That might lead to a high firearm related death rate, even though they are all around very safe places to live in otherwise.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/2 ... ide-rates/

ooh I am sorry, you are right. Let's click on homicides and see where you rank then.....

[D.D.D.]

Yeah the countries above the US all have long standing issues and problems with gang crime. Not saying that gangs arent a problem in the US or the UK, but generally tend to be more focused than the terrible attack in Colorado.

My last thing on this inane topic is, you semi-frequently hear about kids who found their parents' gun and accidentally shot one of their friends or siblings etc. How often do we hear that "thanks to my gun, I was able to fend off an intruder"?
And none of this will change so I can't waste any more time on this~

Sorry, are you saying that the occasional accident is more, or less frequent that people reporting using their guns in self defense?

Accidents seem to come up more often. You never hear about reports saying that self-defense worked.

[Curlypaul]

As I understand it, most gun self defense comes from showing, not using the gun.

I would count showing it as 'using' it, but I understand that there is a difference between warning somebody off, and blowing their head off with it.

@DDD - thanks for clarifying that.