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brandman wrote:I was gonna put an FMV game up like I did for Shenmue, but I couldn't think of a really good one, just mediocre ones, and agreed that it was a low point for gaming.

J T wrote:Gabriel Knight 2!
Tex Murphy!
Journeyman Project!
The 7th Guest!
Ripper!
Star Wars: Rebel Assault!
Dragon's Lair!
Space Ace!
Night Trap!
Phantasmagoria!

No love for Plumbers dont wear ties or Slam City with Scottie Pippen?

J T wrote:
Gabriel Knight 2!
Tex Murphy!
Journeyman Project!
The 7th Guest!
Ripper!
Star Wars: Rebel Assault!
Dragon's Lair!
Space Ace!
Night Trap!
Phantasmagoria!

I may have overlooked Gabriel Knight 2 and Dragon's Lair, but Night Trap IMO is just a little better than mediocre, and I've honestly not heard of the the rest of the titles on this list.

Menegrothx wrote:-image snip-

I've heard Wing Commander is pretty good.

Menegrothx wrote:No love for Plumbers dont wear ties?

Isn't that game horrible though?

Wing Commander III and IV (especially IV and its glorious writing and big budget) are to me, the pinnacle of FMV games. The key is that they're attached to a half-decent space simulator and a franchise that was already known for incredible storytelling.

Original_Name wrote:I was thinking earlier today how Sega has sort of let me down. I've been way behind the times on video games for nearing on a decade now, and I just now got around to scoping out what the fuss is all about with the Yakuza games, which many gamers are so eager to insist are the spiritual successors to my beloved Shenmue. I came across alot of videos and articles addressing the intrigue of the "Hostess Bars" and the sex and seduction mini-games that they entail, and everything about it just seemed very... classless.

Sure, they're a step up from Kratos slinging a litter of slut-puppies over his oh-so-macho back without any words other than "I'm going to try and kill you with my penis and you're going to love it because male power fantasy" (okay, he doesn't actually say that, but he totally could), since there's at least some pretense of interacting with the let's-be-honest-here prostitutes (sorry, Japanese modesty) and laying down some illusion of familiarity with their individual personalities. So, again, I'll file Yakuza's approach to interactive sex under "classless" rather than "offensive" like I would God of War's, but when you're shorthanding sexual intercourse with button-mashing (or even -- strap yourselves in for the future, fellas! -- waggling your Wii-mote around) no one's really winning.

I've been to a few (ummm... a bunch of...) hostess bars. I even knew a few people that worked at them (I didn't meet them there! haha).

Don't prostitutes need to actually have sex, or at least perform sexual acts, in order to be considered prostitutes?

Girls at hostess bars do not need to do those sorts of things. Yes, some of those places/girls offer that, but it is not necessary. It can also be similar to the idea of professional escorts here. It depends on the club/worker.


Off topic? Naw, the OP brought this up in the first post and showed some big common misconceptions.

Of course, if you are talking about soapland, cabaret or actual prostitution, that's a different matter. Yes, the professions do mix and actually feed off each other, but there is a difference between them.

Unfortunately I'm kind of buried in writing I have to do, but I'll take a moment to address Breetai with this:

I apologize if I came across as ignorant, and if I offended you by seeming to attack one of your friends -- I assure you that I meant to address the content of Yakuza rather than actual Japanese culture. I was meaning to say that -- "Hostess" pretense of Yakuza aside -- the game facilitates players to spend money to engage in sexual relations with NPCs in the game. I understand that the occurrence of sex in actual Hostess Bars is a much more nebulous (and in many cases even organic) sort of presence -- that is in the vast majority of cases more coincidental than institutionalized. However, in terms of game design, Sega intentionally coded some of these characters to effectively be prostitutes -- if you pay a set amount of money to them, you will engage in a sort of sexual activity with them. That is to say, behind the "modest", "Japanese" pretense of "Hostess Bars", Yakuza portrays characters who are functionally prostitutes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuqZfoec6oI

..."Happy Ending Bonus". Get too tense and a baby appears onscreen. This is clearly intended to convey sexual meanings.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not OFFENDED by this. These have to be the funniest sex mini-games ever, but at the same time (and maybe I'm over-thinking this), I didn't know exactly how to feel about the same company that offered some of the earliest truly respectful representations of women in games (Ninja Princess, Phantasy Star -- which was actually designed by Miss Rieko Kodama -- Crystal Warriors, and Girl's Garden) as well as several later games which built on this lineage (Skies of Arcadia, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Sakura Taisen, Shenmue, Virtua Fighter, Burning Rangers, Jet Set Radio, NiGHTS into Dreams...) suddenly having a game which treats females and their sexuality as a plotless diversion of a mini-game.

Then again, Fighting Vipers is kind of a smudge on that track record, but still, I find the Yakuza sex mini-games to be sort of a disappointment for a company whose representation of women formerly made them appear almost feminist in comparison to the status quo. Obviously in the real world not every woman is modest or even strong-willed, but in a medium that's so caught up with depicting male power fantasies, it was nice to have a company largely empower females even though that was not the norm:



So, again, the sort of sex portrayed in Yakuza isn't what I would consider "offensive"... just "classless".

I think the problem isn't necessarily the medium but the people making games and their ability to understand and develop new methods for delivering a narrative or enabling gamers to truly create their own. So to Original_Name, the very concept seems forced, though by the very nature of how games are designed, I think he would be unaccepting of any potential outcome based on his statements about virtual sex as well as sexuality represented in any medium.

brandman wrote:

Menegrothx wrote:-image snip-

I've heard Wing Commander is pretty good.

I wouldn't count Wing Commander as an FMV game anymore than the Command & Conquer series is. They're games that use FMV sequences for mission briefings or story but the main gameplay isn't FMV-style (toggling between videos).

Original_Name wrote:Unfortunately I'm kind of buried in writing I have to do, but I'll take a moment to address Breetai with this:

I apologize if I came across as ignorant, and if I offended you by seeming to attack one of your friends -- I assure you that I meant to address the content of Yakuza rather than actual Japanese culture.

Oh, no worries. I just thought I'd throw that out there.

I was meaning to say that -- "Hostess" pretense of Yakuza aside -- the game facilitates players to spend money to engage in sexual relations with NPCs in the game. I understand that the occurrence of sex in actual Hostess Bars is a much more nebulous (and in many cases even organic) sort of presence -- that is in the vast majority of cases more coincidental than institutionalized. However, in terms of game design, Sega intentionally coded some of these characters to effectively be prostitutes -- if you pay a set amount of money to them, you will engage in a sort of sexual activity with them. That is to say, behind the "modest", "Japanese" pretense of "Hostess Bars", Yakuza portrays characters who are functionally prostitutes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuqZfoec6oI

Hey, that kind of stuff CAN happen in/through hostess bars. I just wanted to point out that that sort of thing isn't something that has to be done. In all honesty, it can and does occur in a lot of cases (not with me specifically, but I've, ummm... seen it happen. I mean that literally).

..."Happy Ending Bonus". Get too tense and a baby appears onscreen. This is clearly intended to convey sexual meanings.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not OFFENDED by this. These have to be the funniest sex mini-games ever, but at the same time (and maybe I'm over-thinking this), I didn't know exactly how to feel about the same company that offered some of the earliest truly respectful representations of women in games (Ninja Princess, Phantasy Star -- which was actually designed by Miss Rieko Kodama -- Crystal Warriors, and Girl's Garden) as well as several later games which built on this lineage (Skies of Arcadia, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Sakura Taisen, Shenmue, Virtua Fighter, Burning Rangers, Jet Set Radio, NiGHTS into Dreams...) suddenly having a game which treats females and their sexuality as a plotless diversion of a mini-game.

Well... Sega was trying to convey what was really out there I guess. I have only played (and completed) the first Yakuza game. I guess I should play the rest and see for myself.

Then again, Fighting Vipers is kind of a smudge on that track record, but still, I find the Yakuza sex mini-games to be sort of a disappointment for a company whose representation of women formerly made them appear almost feminist in comparison to the status quo. Obviously in the real world not every woman is modest or even strong-willed, but in a medium that's so caught up with depicting male power fantasies, it was nice to have a company largely empower females even though that was not the norm:

I think you need to pay Japan a visit and check out some hostess clubs. I imagine Sega really was trying to show what happens often. I'm sure they cartoon it a bit, but... I don't know for sure.

So, again, the sort of sex portrayed in Yakuza isn't what I would consider "offensive"... just "classless".

Even if there is no actual sexual acts happening in a specific case, those places are classless in general. I do agree.