Arcade Ports released for both Sega Saturn and PSX

[marurun]

Well, if it puts it in context, I've never been a good combo player. I play much better with characters who land carefully placed individual hits. And while I love Capcom fighters, and I own the JPN versions of almost every Capcom fighter out on the Saturn (I don't have Cyberbots, though), I just don't do well with the more combo-heavy fighters. That said, I prefer X-Men: COTA to MSH and X-Men vs SF to MSH vs SF, despite the MSH titles being a little more balanced and tourney-worthy that the X-men titles. That and I just fucking love Ice Man. Love him to death. I actually did manage to get into his combo setup a bit. I played the crap out of that on my Saturn back in college.

And I sat down with Spider-Man in MSH in vs mode to practice his most basic Aerial Rave. In Turbo 2 it is hard shit. I'm SO out of practice. I could barely pull it off 75% of the time against an unmoving opponent. Tried it on Hulk and on Magneto on Dr. Doom's stage, but I was concentrating so hard on the combos I wasn't in a good position to observe how things flowed. Everything seemed on the up and up, but based on my perceptual abilities at the time, that doesn't mean much. I should note that I never felt I was having trouble with getting off the simple Aerial Rave because the timing was randomly changing on me. Every time I messed up I'm pretty sure it was because I was hitting the wrong button.

If you can get your hands on a region switch for your Saturn, pick up a copy of the MSH JPN release. Should be pretty darn cheap, especially compared to the US version. If you're the expert player that's gonna be the best way for you to compare.

[CD AGES]

It's so damn close that you HAVE to break everything down to small details to find differences

But its not any closer to "arcade accurate" than what you can experience on the PSX version... and yes, while you can break the game to its smallest details to find issues with the port, a majority of the issues are completely obvious when both home version are compared side by side (Loading times being long... even longer than on PSX and game slowdown that's even more prevalent than what is experienced on PSX).

It's the same bullshit everytime. "Slowdown" "load times"

No it's not BS. There is no denying the integrity of these two topics. The SAT version loadtimes are excessive (especially in 3MB mode) and the overall game is crippled by slowdown. These 2 issues alone should question the "excellence" on port quality on SAT. Whats worse, the PSX handles these 2 problems alot better... and yet the Saturn is touted the better version of the two. Why is that? A lack of proper side by side comparison of both versions? The unquestionable capability of the SAT providing higher quality 2D arcade ports over PSX that's so broad across the the board in favor of the SAT, that even if the SAT should (and it does) have a port of questionable quality over the PSX, it's automatically refuted without any desire to investigate!

because the reality is, people make decisions based on these discussions, and I think it is irresponsible for anyone to say MSH is bad port. It isn't

Truly 100% agree with this statement on the irresponsibility of claiming something which is not true based solely on general word of mouth. Which is why this problem (claims of MSH on SAT being an arcade accurate port and being a SIGNIFICANTLY superior than on PSX) has bothered me since personally experiencing the truth.

I was looking for adequate footage across the internet for the game that may lend some weight to my claims and came across a familiar segment.



It a decent review, some lack of knowledge (executuion-wise) but the overall video serves its purpose for anyone looking for some general info on the game.

What I found rather interesting is not so much the video (although Mark does mention the loading times and you can clearly see in the video that fighting the boss Thanos, is like fighting underwater!) but the actual comments. For every 10 comments praising the games awesomeness and its superiority over the PSX version, there is 1 that remarks based on the observations from watching the video...

This video needs to be redone,man! I mean, it doesn't do the game justice. The frame rate on this video is terrible!

No, Its just how the SAT version of MSH runs! The framerate on the SAT port doesn't do the original arcade game justice!

That Framerrate! it looks like the characters are on the moon :/

Yup! SAT slowndown. it kills the framerate!

what capture card do you use?

Nothing to do with the capture card. That's just how games speed is.

I do not know how fast it is supose to run, but yes, it does look like it is slow.

That's because it is slow.

Someone needs to get some Hastaga going on, because this game seems much too slow. . . Looks nice though

Yup!

Anyone thinking this game is running slow on the Saturn?

Don't think its slow... know that it is slow!

Wow that some slooooow gameplay

Quite.

Gameplay seems a bit slow..

Yup.

the speed is too slow, you should speed it up

The game is actually running at its highest speed setting in this video!

wow that game moves like ass...my memories of old games sure are way off. nothing is never as good as you remember it.

Yes.

Man this game looks so slow ehn not being played on turbo 2

Actually it is! you can see, just skip video to 2:44

I think Mark having the "3M RAM Mode" turned on makes the game slow down because that features restores all the missing animation frames from the arcade game and this engine port isn't fast enough to draw them in the same amount of time it took to draw half as many frames without the 1MB RAM cartridge.

BINGO!!! This is the heart of the problem here! This is why the port is of low quality!

Why is the gameplay slow as fuck?

Because this is the Saturn version of the game.

i remember this game was faster, or maybe he is playing with normal speed. Psx version was slower than this in the highset speed

No it wasn't... No he's not and nope, not true.

Is it me or does the game speed is a bit slow? I remember this game being a little bit faster than this, it almost feel like slow mo.

hmm...

In comparison to current fighting games this looks like it's playing at half speed.

If the SAT is as accurate to the arcade as Mike claims, then that means the arcade version is just as slow

Mark, is something wrong with your editing software or something? or the game is this slow on the sega saturn...?

The latter.

Are my eyes deceiving me or this port is slower compared to the real arcade?

Number 2!

[mjmjr25]

^Ok.

I can find hundreds of random quotes from people who think game X is great port and who think game X is a bad port.

-If the MB card is slowing the game down for you...take it out?
-If the music loops differently than the arcade, i'll concede that - I've never noticed. I think the people that that fact would bother and dissuade from getting the SAT version would be less than 0.01%, seriously.
-The slow loading times you mentioned - nope. Played both US SAT and JP SAT today, load times are extremely minimal. The time between character selection and cut to match screen might be slightly longer than the arcade, but wasn't noticeable and certainly didn't feel off - but the arcade does that too, it stops after character selection for a brief moment and then cuts to the match.

I've never played the PSX port, if you say it is better than the SAT, then ok, I can't argue that, but I stand by the SAT version still being an excellent port.

The things you stated were reasons it wasn't a great port are nitpicky and are going to be existent in nearly every single port of every game, meaning a great port by that definition isn't possible.

-Music loops. Ok.
-Frames slowdown if you use the MB card to enhance graphics, don't use it - graphics look super w/o it if you use S-vid.
-Long loading times. No.

The things that most people concern themselves about in regard to arcade accuracy are:
-Missing stages
-Changes in characters (move list, outfit, etc)
-Changes in difficulty (boss or characters)
-Changes in controls
-Removal or addition of specials, powerups, etc
-Horrible Lag
-Freezing or skipping frames
-Use of different sountrack
-Change of stage paths / backgrounds (generally referring to shooters)

To me, imo, the things you are mentioning making this a horrible port, maybe make it horrible for you, but I don't think for the vast majority. Maybe i'm wrong.

[foxhound1022]

Ok, so as far as SF Alpha 3/Zero 3 is concerned, which port of that is definitive: DC, PSX, or SAT?

[CD AGES]

I can find hundreds of random quotes from people who think game X is great port and who think game X is a bad port.

Great! But look at the comments and see for yourself that these quotes aren't bashing the game or even saying version X is better than version Y. Instead the majority of the comments stem from startled realization of what they are seeing in the video review not being a representation of what they recalled from their memories of playing the game on the Saturn!
This is the root of the problem with MSH (SAT) and its hailed status as the most accurate home port of the arcade game. People's claims as an accurate port (or better than PSX) is nothing more than a fuzzy, baseless memory of what that game actually was. An avarage subpar conversion that is no better than the PSX version!

-If the MB card is slowing the game down for you...take it out?

In fact I do! But the fact of the matter is that people claim the games superiority over the PSX version on very basis that the game must be played with the MB Card. This is another major myth, so as such my side of the argument HAS to take the MB card mode into account! But the real truth is that when the game is played without the card mode on, the game is almost equal with the PSX version as loadtimes are alleviated and slowdown slightly!

If the music loops differently than the arcade, i'll concede that - I've never noticed. I think the people that that fact would bother and dissuade from getting the SAT version would be less than 0.01%, seriously

True, but its still an issue that the so called "inferior" PSX version doesn't suffer from among other issues that exclusively plague the game on SAT.

-The slow loading times you mentioned - nope. Played both US SAT and JP SAT today, load times are extremely minimal. The time between character selection and cut to match screen might be slightly longer than the arcade, but wasn't noticeable and certainly didn't feel off - but the arcade does that too, it stops after character selection for a brief moment and then cuts to the match.

See for yourself! If your loadtimes for the game are similar to what you see in this video then your definition of "minimal" and "brief" are drastically differrent from my own
Even fellow member Curlypaul was polite enough to check this for me and this was what he found

I can confirm that the Saturn's MSH does have some incredibly long loading times, and they are made longer with the RAM cart. When I first had it I had to keep double checking my AR was working as I thought the RAM cart was supposed to help reduce loading.

I've never played the PSX port, if you say it is better than the SAT, then ok, I can't argue that, but I stand by the SAT version still being an excellent port

Perhaps you should looking getting a copy and find out for yourself. This is how I came to find out the truth of MSH on SAT. Everyone would say the SAT version is better then what originally I purchased (PSX version). I was shocked to find out it was a lie. Then I kept hearing the MB RAM cart improves and enhances the the game. I bought it and that was fuck'n lie as well!

To me, imo, the things you are mentioning making this a horrible port, maybe make it horrible for you, but I don't think for the vast majority. Maybe i'm wrong.

No, rather the things that I mentioned that make this anything but "excellent" or "Superior" as its labeled by many... is just ignorance and/or a lie that needs to stop.

[CD AGES]

Ok, so as far as SF Alpha 3/Zero 3 is concerned, which port of that is definitive: DC, PSX, or SAT?

None of the above if by "definitive" you mean most arcade accurate. The definitive version is found on the PS2 by way of SF Alpha Anthology. These versions you mention are actually based (or was it the other way around ) on "SF Zero 3 Upper" expansion that was released exclusively in the japan for the arcade market. In Anthology disc, you get perfect ports of both standard release Alpha 3 (which is what is played competitively here in the US) and Alpha 3 upper. The only major thing to take into consideration is that those other ports mentioned, while not as accurate as Anthology, make up for in sheer console content like World Tour Mode for example.

[mjmjr25]

CD Ages...not being condescending, at all, but...relax. Exclamation points and throwing around that everyone who believes this port to be excellent is "lying!" is like, sorta overboard.

It sounds like you've been involved in this debate, heavily, quite a bit before.

My opinion, and the opinion of many others, is that it is an excellent port. The reasons you claim it isn't, to me are either unfounded, or the ones that are founded, are just small / pointless that only elitists would worry about.

Show me something drastic, as outlined above, and i'm on your side.

It sounds like your passionate about this, that's great, and you probably have a lot of knowledge as well, also great, but I think you are confusing EXACT port with Excellent port. Most of us (again, I think) are looking for a very good or excellent port, not necessarily exact, because those are VERY tough to come by.

Now, answer fox's question, because i've played the board, DC and SAT versions and would like to hear your opinion on this one. (SFZero 3)

EDIT: Looks like you just did...

[foxhound1022]

Well IMO, the Saturn version looks better than the DC port. On DC the characters look smaller and slightly distorted. Haven't played the PSX port enough to compare that one.

[CD AGES]

Well IMO, the Saturn version looks better than the DC port. On DC the characters look smaller and slightly distorted. Haven't played the PSX port enough to compare that one.

that's what hear of those 2. i don't have Zero 3 on the SAT so i can't comment.

The psx version is the most drastic of all the home ports. The Hit sprites are actually composed of polygons to save RAM. quite ingenious if you ask me.

[foxhound1022]

Well IMO, the Saturn version looks better than the DC port. On DC the characters look smaller and slightly distorted. Haven't played the PSX port enough to compare that one.

that's what hear of those 2. i don't have Zero 3 on the SAT so i can't comment.

The psx version is the most drastic of all the home ports. The Hit sprites are actually composed of polygons to save RAM. quite ingenious if you ask me.

Oddly enough, I have noticed that the impacts always looked slightly different on PSX for some reason; now that clears that up.

I have all 3 ports, but due to the fact I prefer a pad in fighters, the Saturn port is what I usually end up playing.

That, and the fact of the price it demands, so I figure I gotta get my money's worth from it.