When was this supposed golden age of PC gaming?

[da66en]

Compare System Shock 2 to Bioshock -two games that come from the same developers and where Bioshock is supposed to be a successor - and you can see how a game was dumbed down.

System Shock 2 had a full featured inventory system that required thoughtful management.
-vs-
Bioshock had spare parts that you took to a vending machine.

System Shock 2 had a complicated stats and psi upgrade system, with many different choices.
-vs-
Bioshock let you select pasmids via a rolodex, easily scrolled via 2 buttons on a gamepad.

Sure, if you want to compare FPS #75 between PC and Console and you will not see a difference. But look at games with real gameplay depth, and you will see how they have been dumbed down, whether it be because of dumber audience or dumber control schemes.

[dsheinem]

I've said my piece, but JT you and a few others keep trying to frame this as an "us vs. them" PC vs. console debate which, for me and for many, it isn't. Most of the PC gamer folks here play a hell of a lot of consoles and have at least an equal appreciation for consoles and PCs. I don't think anyone is claiming that from 1988-2001 or so gaming was quantitatively BETTER on PCs than on consoles, just that those were the best years FOR PC gaming. It is like saying 2001-2004 was the "golden age" of the PS2. That doesn't mean that the PS2 was undeniably the "best" system around during those years.

Those like the poster above me who claim that consoles might have a "dumber audience" do not represent the majority of us, so please don't generalize.

[RyaNtheSlayA]

I've said my piece, but JT you and a few others keep trying to frame this as an "us vs. them" PC vs. console debate which, for me and for many, it isn't. Most of the PC gamer folks here play a hell of a lot of consoles and have at least an equal appreciation for consoles and PCs. I don't think anyone is claiming that from 1988-2001 or so gaming was quantitatively BETTER on PCs than on consoles, just that those were the best years FOR PC gaming. It is like saying 2001-2004 was the "golden age" of the PS2. That doesn't mean that the PS2 was undeniably the "best" system around during those years.

Those like the poster above me who claim that consoles might have a "dumber audience" do not represent the majority of us, so please don't generalize.

It's not that we think consoles have a dumber audience. It's the fact that games that would normally be great on the PC due to our access to over 30 buttons and an extremely precise method of moving and looking in games end up feeling watered down to fit console limitations.

Team Fortress 2, a game that pushed no limits had to be gimped down to 16 players instead of the usual 24 because the Xbox couldn't handle it so it's no wonder that a title that could barely run on most PCs of the era had to be watered down to fit in it.

To be fair Team Fortress 2 on the PC has supported 24 or more players for a while now, and, Valve has pretty much disowned the console ports. I honestly think the game works best with 16 players anyway. It can get a little too chaotic with 24 players, especially with a team full of drunk scottish demomen pillin mah damn point!

[J T]

Fair enough dsheinem. There are some titles that I think are legitimately negatively affected by being ported to PC from console. I played a demo for Last Remnant that gave me tutorial instructions for an Xbox 360 controller even though I was using mouse + keyboard: that's bad. As long as we stay away form this world view:

[MrPopo]

Fair enough dsheinem. There are some titles that I think are legitimately negatively affected by being ported to PC from console. I played a demo for Last Remnant that gave me tutorial instructions for an Xbox 360 controller even though I was using mouse + keyboard: that's bad. As long as we stay away form this world view:

Are you implying that PC Gamers aren't the glorious master race?

[jfrost]

Someone said that multiplatform games have hurt the PC.

I'm really happy with multiplatform games. I really hate exclusive titles. I feel that the wider the availability of a title, the better, and while in earlier years typical console genres would never make the jump to PC, now they would, and they do.

Unlike most people here, I can't afford to buy three consoles, keep a top notch gaming PC rig and support three portable systems. I have a PC and if most things are also available on the PC, I'm a happy camper.

[MrPopo]

Someone said that multiplatform games have hurt the PC.

I'm really happy with multiplatform games. I really hate exclusive titles. I feel that the wider the availability of a title, the better, and while in earlier years typical console genres would never make the jump to PC, now they would, and they do.

Unlike most people here, I can't afford to buy three consoles, keep a top notch gaming PC rig and support three portable systems. I have a PC and if most things are also available on the PC, I'm a happy camper.

An example of a good multiplatform game: FFVII. When it came to the PC they had a nice little overlay for your numpad and you controlled the game from there. It worked well since the game doesn't require twitch and all the in-game dialog was recoded to list the function they wanted you to hit (like OK or Menu) instead of the PSX buttons like in the original. A JRPG like Final Fantasy wouldn't benefit much from having all the additional PC controls.

A bad multiplatform game: Deus Ex Invisible War. Many large concessions were made on the gameplay and UI front to accomodate the limitations of the Xbox. It is held as a truism that the game would have fared better had it only been developed for the PC.

Multiplatform in and of itself is not bad. Many games can transition from console to PC just fine, like JRPGs and fighting games. The ones that don't fare so well are the FPS's, which are in the unfortunate position of just showing how neutered they are when they are put on the PC if originally developed for the console. You can compare a port side-by-side with a PC exclusive and the PC exclusive will take far better use of the flexibility of a mouse and keyboard setup. I firmly believe that FPS's should not be made multiplatform between PCs and consoles, because no developer is willing to put in the work to make a PC version that takes full advantage of a mouse and keyboard setup. I'm talking about rebalancing the enemies (both damage and position) and the like.

I take that back; there is one developer willing. Uber Entertainment made Monday Night Combat for the 360, then recently ported it to the PC. The balance of the PC version is completely different from the balance of the 360 version (snipers being the biggest example). If more developers were willing to do something like that (create a base engine that is cross platform, have separate UI divisions, separate balance divisions) then you would hear less people crying foul about multiplatform.

[emwearz]

I've said my piece, but JT you and a few others keep trying to frame this as an "us vs. them" PC vs. console debate which, for me and for many, it isn't. Most of the PC gamer folks here play a hell of a lot of consoles and have at least an equal appreciation for consoles and PCs. I don't think anyone is claiming that from 1988-2001 or so gaming was quantitatively BETTER on PCs than on consoles, just that those were the best years FOR PC gaming. It is like saying 2001-2004 was the "golden age" of the PS2. That doesn't mean that the PS2 was undeniably the "best" system around during those years.

Those like the poster above me who claim that consoles might have a "dumber audience" do not represent the majority of us, so please don't generalize.

Really well said.

[da66en]

Those like the poster above me who claim that consoles might have a "dumber audience" do not represent the majority of us, so please don't generalize.

I never said all console gamers are dumber...

But look at this way...

During the 'golden' age of PC gaming, I spent WEEKS tweaking my config.sys and autoexec.bat to squeeze more out of my 640K, XMS, EMS and Extended memory so I can play Ultima 7 and Wing Commander with better performance. Could you then expect that kind of person to look for more engaging gameplay, and not 'dumbed down' gameplay?

The average console gamer who inserts their Halo and Madden and presses the start button did not experience this.

This shows the difference between the average gamer intelligence between gamers of today and the golden age of PC gaming.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing, it means that more people are playing games. But it was nice during the 'golden' age of PC gaming that PC gamers could expect games being made for them - now we are just getting dumbed down console games ported to a PC.

[alienjesus]

Those like the poster above me who claim that consoles might have a "dumber audience" do not represent the majority of us, so please don't generalize.

I never said all console gamers are dumber...

But look at this way...

During the 'golden' age of PC gaming, I spent WEEKS tweaking my config.sys and autoexec.bat to squeeze more out of my 640K, XMS, EMS and Extended memory so I can play Ultima 7 and Wing Commander with better performance. Could you then expect that kind of person to look for more engaging gameplay, and not 'dumbed down' gameplay?

The average console gamer who inserts their Halo and Madden and presses the start button did not experience this.

This shows the difference between the average gamer intelligence between gamers of today and the golden age of PC gaming.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing, it means that more people are playing games. But it was nice during the 'golden' age of PC gaming that PC gamers could expect games being made for them - now we are just getting dumbed down console games ported to a PC.

To me, it says that you're crazy for wanting to play games you have to spend weeks messing with to play with marginally better performance instead of just playing a game on a console that plays as it should as just by virtue of all the consoles being basically the same.

Actually, that's a lie, I'm just being controversial. I have nothing against PC gamers. I just dislike the implication that as a gamer who just inserts a game into a console and presses play I'm on average more likely to be less intelligent than someone who has the time to waste weeks fiddling with PC settings to get better performance.