World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[marurun]

why do people have any reason to think the shooter was a "closet homosexual"?

Because the only people who really hate homosexuals are... other homosexuals?

Also unsurprising is many in the mainstream and social media are saying [insert nasty descriptor] Christians think this is the work of their God... and these folks are either so uneducated, or so bigoted themselves, they would profess (or pretend) that a group of 40 disturbed individuals speak for 1.5 billion people; so as to further their own hatred of that group.

A number of US citizens do that to Muslims, so I don't know that Christians are the only religious folks to be smeared by proximity to crazies. Personally, I try not to equate Westboro with other Christians. I prefer to use Westboro as a familiar example of how any religion or belief set can be adopted by nutters and used as a tool for hatred. Nutters gonna nut.

[Exhuminator]

why do people have any reason to think the shooter was a "closet homosexual"?

Basic psychology.

“If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us.”
-Hermann Hesse

[dsheinem]

why do people have any reason to think the shooter was a "closet homosexual"?

Basic psychology.

“If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us.”
-Hermann Hesse

I think that the logic of "closet gays are the ones who murder the out gays" is a really, really harmful framework for understanding LGBT discrimination. I have no doubt that there are people who fit this description, but they are by no means the majority of those who express prejudice and hate and who work actively to take life and liberty from LGBT people.

Sorry, but hearing reiterations of that logic just irks me. It potentially closes off a lot of critical examination that needs to take place about the more hateful elements of our culture and, for many, of ourselves.

[Michi]

I agree with Dsh. I'll admit that there are many cases where people who speak out the loudest about their homophobia do indeed end up being gay themselves. But that doesn't mean that everyone who has an aversion to the LGBT community is somehow closeted in some way. Some people are just assholes, or they feel disenfranchised in some way and they take their anger out on people who can't fight back so they can feel more powerful. People who commit crimes like this usually have low self-esteem, a lack of empathy and/or a sense of entitlement that isn't being met. They do it for the power trip and notoriety, and I'm betting this guy isn't any different.

[Exhuminator]

I think that the logic of "closet gays are the ones who murder the out gays" is a really, really harmful framework

But that doesn't mean that everyone who has an aversion to the LGBT community is somehow closeted in some way.

No one here said closet gays are the only people who murder out gays.

Although...

Chris Callen, a performer who'd worked at Pulse, told CNN he'd seen Mateen a couple times at the nightclub. Callen said he once introduced himself and Mateen was "very friendly" and that he seemed comfortable there. Mateen would regularly come to the club twice a month for a period of three years, he estimated. Four regular patrons at Pulse also told the Orlando Sentinel they had seen Mateen there multiple times.

- http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/14/us/orland ... index.html

If this guy needed to case the club, once or twice would have been enough. He'd been there over 70 times in the past three years? Yeah, dude was gay.

[Exhuminator]

"An Orlando man told MSNBC's Chris Hayes on Monday that he had seen photos of Mateen on the gay dating apps Grindr, Adam4Adam, and Jack'd over the past several years. At least two of the man's friends had been contacted by Mateen on the apps."

"A former police academy classmate of Mateen's told The Palm Beach Post on Monday he thought Mateen was gay and that Mateen once asked him out romantically. The classmate, who did not use his name, said he, Mateen, and other classmates would sometimes go to gay bars after classes at the Indian River Community College police academy."

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/report-o ... 20444.html

[samsonlonghair]

Exhuminator is exactly right here. The shooter was in the closet. Frankly, it's not surprising. If a person is obsessing over homosexuality, there's probably a reason why.

[marurun]

Exhuminator is exactly right here. The shooter was in the closet. Frankly, it's not surprising. If a person is obsessing over homosexuality, there's probably a reason why.

Let's at least recognize that there are many reasons for nutty people to obsess over homosexuality, and this is only one.

[samsonlonghair]

Exhuminator is exactly right here. The shooter was in the closet. Frankly, it's not surprising. If a person is obsessing over homosexuality, there's probably a reason why.

Let's at least recognize that there are many reasons for nutty people to obsess over homosexuality, and this is only one.

I fail to recognize that.

If a man spends his whole day thinking about how dirty and wrong gay sex is, there is exactly one reason why.

Purely anecdotal nonsense: I know a man named Robert. I met him around 2006~ish. As long as I've known him, he would jump at the chance to say, "homosexuality is a sin; it's wrong; they're all going to hell," et cetera. Not that he ever spent a Sunday morning sitting in a pew, but he was darn sure that other folks were sinners. Dude loved to say a certain word that starts with the letter "f" anytime he saw a handsome man. After a while he became so abrasive I had to disassociate myself from his company. Last fall he finally comes out of the closet. Big darn shock, right? Now anytime I run into Robert, all he talks about is how society is against him. MOTHER EFFER! Ten months ago I heard him threaten to "kick the dog shit out of some skinny f-----" (not to his face of course) and today Robert feels victimized. Dude has no sense of personal responsibility.

The thing is, we all know a Robert. In fact, we all know more than one Robert. People who hate themselves have to take it out on others.

Sure, it's entirely possible for a straight person to be an asshole too. No doubt about it. Assholes come in all colors, shapes, and sizes. I'm pretty sure the guy who was tailgating me this morning with his high beams on was most certainly an asshole. The lady talking on her cell phone in the movie theater was also an asshole. Heck, I've been an asshole once or twice myself. But even when I'm at my worst, I don't target homosexuals with my negativity. On the worst day of my life, I have never threatened to harm a gay person for being gay.

[jp1]

Exhuminator is exactly right here. The shooter was in the closet. Frankly, it's not surprising. If a person is obsessing over homosexuality, there's probably a reason why.

Let's at least recognize that there are many reasons for nutty people to obsess over homosexuality, and this is only one.

I fail to recognize that.

If a man spends his whole day thinking about how dirty and wrong gay sex is, there is exactly one reason why.

Purely anecdotal nonsense: I know a man named Robert. I met him around 2006~ish. As long as I've known him, he would jump at the chance to say, "homosexuality is a sin; it's wrong; they're all going to hell," et cetera. Not that he ever spent a Sunday morning sitting in a pew, but he was darn sure that other folks were sinners. Dude loved to say a certain word that starts with the letter "f" anytime he saw a handsome man. After a while he became so abrasive I had to disassociate myself from his company. Last fall he finally comes out of the closet. Big darn shock, right? Now anytime I run into Robert, all he talks about is how society is against him. MOTHER EFFER! Ten months ago I heard him threaten to "kick the dog shit out of some skinny f-----" (not to his face of course) and today Robert feels victimized. Dude has no sense of personal responsibility.

The thing is, we all know a Robert. In fact, we all know more than one Robert. People who hate themselves have to take it out on others.

Sure, it's entirely possible for a straight person to be an asshole too. No doubt about it. Assholes come in all colors, shapes, and sizes. I'm pretty sure the guy who was tailgating me this morning with his high beams on was most certainly an asshole. The lady talking on her cell phone in the movie theater was also an asshole. Heck, I've been an asshole once or twice myself. But even when I'm at my worst, I don't target homosexuals with my negativity. On the worst day of my life, I have never threatened to harm a gay person for being gay.

Seriously? Ok, how about people who grew up in a family that taught them to hate homosexuals? Or those who do attend church and that church is preaching hate to them every week. What about people who feel threatened because they are scared that every homosexual is going to make an advance on them, as if they are too desirable to resist.

I knew a guy like that once. We went to a party that happened to be hosted at the house of a gay couple. First words from his mouth..."I'll party with you, but don't try anything because I am straight!"

I love the response.

"Oh, honey...if you were gay, you still wouldn't need to worry yourself."

There are lots of reasons a person may hate a gay person, irrational reasons, but reasons. You think that every racist person is secretly in camouflage?

Fear is just as great a motivation for hate as self loathing, and so is stupidity.