World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[MrPopo]

Most Christians don't really grasp just how ingrained the assumption is that everyone loves Jesus.

...uh...what? This couldn't be further from reality. These comments you make from time to time ingrain in me how little you actually understand about theology in all forms.

o_O

You're really going to sit there with a straight face and say that the average American doesn't assume another average American is Christian?

[Sarge]

I don't. In fact, I'd argue that many Christians are going to assume that a person is not a Christian until they reveal as such. Furthermore, the Christians I know will also evaluate an individual to see if they are actually showing evidence that they are what they say they are.

This actually gets to some interesting demographic trends, many of which relate to the church. Numbers are falling off, but I very much believe that there are far fewer "true" Christians than those that simply identify because their parents went to church, or they go to church on Easter and Christmas, or some other silly metric.

There's a reason why Christians sometimes don't show Christian love. Well, multiple reasons. One is the obvious one, that we're human beings, fallen individuals prone to sin, regardless of our salvific standing. That doesn't make it right, but it's there nonetheless, and we must continue to keep striving for an unattainable standard. The other is that many that identify as Christian are just going through the motions, because that's what the society around them expects of them. But the dwindling numbers, I believe, are a sign that the social stigma is rapidly disappearing (or has disappeared), even in the "Bible Belt". I'd rather have folks not even make a pretense of it, honestly.

[prfsnl_gmr]

If you can't see the double-standard in media / internet / pop cultural response to Christian issue and Islamic issues in this country, it is only because you don't want to.

I don't think that there is a double-standard.

In my experience, people critical of Christianity in this country are critical of all forms of organized religion. See, e.g., Christopher Hitchens. Since self-professed Christians have so much an effect on our public policy, however, I think that organized religion's most vocal detractors in this country tend to focus on it (with good reason). If Islam had even close to the same affect on the policies affecting our day-to-day lives, I think you would see the same people lashing out against it.

BTW, in the example you cited, the person quoted by the Washington Post is a member of the Swiss People's Party, which really is very opposed to immigration (and Islam, generally, having successfully spearheaded a movement to amended the Swiss constitution to prevent the construction of minarets). This is one of its posters supporting the deportation of foreign criminals:



In light of the article's subject matter, I think the reporter in that article was obligated to point out the person's affiliation with the party and the fact that the party is generally opposed to immigration as a matter of journalistic ethics. To do otherwise would deprive readers of context for the person's statements. Accordingly, I am not sure that article is best example of anti-Christian media bias (which, as far as I can tell, does not actually exist).

[jp1]

All previous to any comment made after the quoted statements, I'm slow today.

Most Christians don't really grasp just how ingrained the assumption is that everyone loves Jesus.

...uh...what? This couldn't be further from reality. These comments you make from time to time ingrain in me how little you actually understand about theology in all forms.

o_O

You're really going to sit there with a straight face and say that the average American doesn't assume another average American is Christian?

While I don't agree with Mjmjr25's entire post, I think he may have a point on that note. I generally assume, and generally assume correctly that I'm speaking with someone who is NOT a Christian more often than not. I don't think it is as prevalent as it is made out to be, and I live in the Bible belt.

I think that there seems to be a rather large divide here between conservative and liberal Christians both here and in every day life. I am not offended at all by the comments made by prfsnl_gmr or Popo. They don't upset my Christian sensibilities since we share a same set of basic beliefs.

If I'm not mistaken prfsnl_gmr is himself a Christian. So he clearly isn't speaking about bigotry due to Christianity, rather bigotry under the guise of Christianity. These are very different things.

Persecution can be applied to any religious belief if you feel that someone doesn't want to be judged or treated with intolerance simply because you believe something is persecution, of course you are then the one doing the persecution.

With all due respect, this is the gay marriage debate all over. We all have a different idea of what is and what is not acceptable due to religious beliefs, or what those beliefs should even signify for that matter. It isn't likely that anyone will be changing their minds.

Edit: I see Sarge already made that first point.

@Sarge, I agree with much of that as well. Except the "True Christians" bit. I take exception that anyone else can dictate whether or not an individual is a true Christian. I'm sorry my friend, but that falls into the "Where the hell do you get off?" category. I hope it is intended differently than it reads, I didn't peg you for the holier than thou type.

[Key-Glyph]

I just want to say that although it's great the individuals here do not automatically assume most Americans they meet are Christian, the Jewish guy saying "in my lifetime of personal experience most Americans assumed I was Christian unless I explicitly displayed otherwise" is significant.

[jp1]

I just want to say that although it's great the individuals here do not automatically assume most Americans they meet are Christian, the Jewish guy saying "in my lifetime of personal experience most Americans assumed I was Christian unless I explicitly displayed otherwise" is significant.

That's a good point. I didn't mean to imply he wasn't making a valid point of his own.

I'm only saying that in my experience the number of atheists or believers of something other than Christianity is on the rise. I don't feel as though Christianity is the majority that it is represented to be. Assumptions about it, I concede are a different matter.

I didn't really think Popo was relating on a personal (intimate) level with that post.

Apologies Popo.

[MrPopo]

No worries. But it's another example of the general trend for people in the majority group to dismiss complaints of the minority group. This is a common theme for women complaining about discriminatory behavior, especially in the tech industry. And I know there's examples for other minority groups as well.

[prfsnl_gmr]

If I'm not mistaken prfsnl_gmr is himself a Christian. So he clearly isn't speaking about bigotry due to Christianity, rather bigotry under the guise of Christianity. These are very different things.

Thanks, jp1. You are, as usual, completely correct.

[Sarge]

Ha, now I'm subject to the curse of text not conveying my thoughts properly.

No, I can't judge someone's salvation. That's between them and God. However, I know many people that believe they are saved for reasons such as, "my family goes to church", or "I'm a good person", or something similar. None of those actually make one a "Christian", nor do they confer salvation.

Furthermore, we are called to inspect the fruits of fellow believers, so I always at least attempt to evaluate whether a fellow believer is living the life they say they are trying to. It's possible they are just "backslid", as all of us (especially myself) do from time to time. But it's also possible that they haven't actually accepted Christ as their Savior, and that's something that needs to be addressed if they claim to be Christian!

[Key-Glyph]

That's a good point. I didn't mean to imply he wasn't making a valid point of his own.

I'm only saying that in my experience the number of atheists or believers of something other than Christianity is on the rise. I don't feel as though Christianity is the majority that it is represented to be. Assumptions about it, I concede are a different matter.

I didn't really think Popo was relating on a personal (intimate) level with that post.

Apologies Popo.

Aw, jp, it's all good. I wasn't responding to anyone directly, I just generally feared that Popo's observation was getting lost in the shuffle.