Summer Games Challenge 2014

[alienjesus]

another thought I had was swapping out Loom for Vampire The Masquerade.

Other maybes:

Metal Slug 3
Dragon's Lair
Another World
Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver
Sonic 3 And Knuckles

...

All of these are fine choices. I'm a fan of Metal Slug 3, and although I think Sonic 3 is the weakest in the mega drive series, it's still good.

Ok. I need to get back to actual gaming this summer and this seems like a great way to do it. I'm going to list some games for my Nintendo systems I haven't played/finished yet and I'll go from their. I'm usually a dabbler where I play a game for a while and move onto something else.

...

Any help in shrinking this down would be helpful. I'm not gaming until June so I have time but I'd really like to get a nice sampling and knock out some classics this year.

I'll give it a go too.

1. Kirby's Adventure - This comes before the other 2 in the series, and it's a defining late gen game for NES, and the first Kirby game with copy abilities.
2. Chip n' Dale - I actually wouldnt have put it on my list but for the fact you said you could play it with your kids and I don't have the heart to cut it after that.
3. Super Metroid - Top 3 on the SNES for sure. This is one of the biggest 'must play's on your list.
4. Zelda - Most of the ones from your list are fine choices. Ocarina of Time is the obvious choice to me though - defining N64 game, Zelda game and just one of the most iconic games in gaming all together. Alternatively, Link's Awakening was a defining GB game, and WW a classic on Gamecube. I wouldn't go for Majora before Ocarina though, and Twilight isn't so hot. You don't have any other N64 games on your list though.
5. Pikmin - I agree with Ack that this is one of the Gamecube's defining games. I adore it.
6. Donkey Kong Country 2 - This is generally the best thought of in the series, although I prefer 3. If you want to play all 3 sometime soonish, it could be better to start with the first. The first is still great, but less refined than it's sequels.
7. Metal Slug - The best metal slug game, the one that started it off, and in my opinion, the easiest and fairest one too (still fairly tough though!)
8. Super Mario Land 2 - Defining GB game. A nice quick easy one, perfect for a summer list. I chose this over Mario RPG because I think that game sucks, and 2 RPGs would be a bit much anyway.
9. Super Castlevania IV - Often cited as the best game in a pretty major series of the 8 and 16 bit eras. Definitely worth a go.
10. Final Fantasy III - Just thought another non-nintendo game would be nice. Be warned though, this one is pretty tough.

I had to be brutal and cut Chibi-Robo!!, one of my all time favourite games because it's probably too niche and unknown for this challenge

EDIT: Oh hey, I chose 9 out of 10 games the same as Ack. Seems like a good selection in that case! Great minds think alike

Leaning towards Tactics Ogre or FFVIII as my 10th in place of Cybernator. Will probably got with FFVIII if Noise does play it.

I'd go with TO if I were you - you don't have any SRPGs on your list, right?

Yeah, that's what I'm leaning towards mainly - it's portable too, which means I'll get more time to play it than a console RPG. I don't actually have any RPGs on my list so far.

I think I'll just go with that.

My list:
1. Double Dragon (NES)
2. Super Aleste (SNES)
3. Perfect Dark (N64)
4. Wave Race 64 (N64)
5. Shantae (3DS VC - GBC)
6. Ristar (Wii VC - MD)
7. Bangai-O (DC)
8. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (PSP)
9. Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together (PSP)
10. Metal Gear Solid 2 (Vita)

[dsheinem]

I kinda feel bad for you dar, you seem to take a lot of flak on this site...I think you should play the games you want to play. The point of this is to have fun, not feel guilted into playing games you have no passion to play. Play whatever you want and don't worry about anyone else's opinion.

Agree 100%. As long as you're not hurting someone by doing so, which you're not, play and do what you want. If you want to play Quest for Camelot and Yu-Gi-Oh do so.

I am not trying to "guilt" anyone into playing or not playing anything, of course people can play whatever the fuck they want. If people would rather I not keep up the tradition of debating the "classic" status of games on the summer challenge list (or if people want to change the challenge to just be "clear 10 games from your backlog") then I'll be happy to STFU and see myself out of the thread.

[dunpeal2064]

Well, I know my intention was not to have you stop this tradition. I was just curious as to what methods you used to determine whether a game qualifies for this thread, and was hoping to lead into a bit of discussion about what makes a game a classic, how games could be seen as classics by a younger audience (Kirby 64, for example) whereas we might not see them as such, or genre differences (What is a classic music rhythm game? Are they all classic? What about majong, card games, etc. Are some genres pretty much barred from having a classic game? Is it just relevance?).

I can't speak for others, but I hope you keep doing what you do.

[CFFJR]

I find it funny, and interesting discussion too.

I'd rather you stick around dsh.

[alienjesus]

What is a classic music rhythm game? Are they all classic?

Parappa the Rapper, Space Channel 5, Guitar Hero, Dance Dance Revolution, Taiko no Tatsujin - all of these seem like obvious choices to me. There's probably a fair few more. Music games really arent all that obscure.

What about majong

Shanghai. It's tricky to define a classic video game which is just a recreation of a real life game though.

card games

Solitaire (Windows)
Uno (XBLA)

My point from above stands, although I'd probably say Pokémon TCG is a possibility? I can sort of understand the Yu-Gi-Oh argument but for a few things - 1. There are a bajillion of them, yet none of them seem to have reviewed particularly well. Pokémon TCG was at least a well recieved game and a massive seller on it's system. 2. Pokémon was also (sub-) culturally relevant to it's time in a way Yu-Gi-Oh really wasn't. Yu-Gi-Oh had it's audience for sure, but nothing on the scale of significance that pokémon had in the late 90s

Are some genres pretty much barred from having a classic game? Is it just relevance?

Honestly, I;d say probably some genres might not have a classic, but I'm not sure I could name one off the top of my head. Mahjong seems like the obvious example, but I wouldnt call that a genre in the same way I wouldnt call chess a genre. It's a game, not a genre.

I can't speak for others, but I hope you keep doing what you do.

I understand some people gettign defensive, but I like debating the wrath of Dave in this thread every year. No -one is obligated to change their lists, but I like how it makes some people rethink their options - myself included.

[dunpeal2064]

For your music game selection: Everything you picked seems to fit. If DDR fits the bill, I would argue that Beatmania is a certain fit as well. Frequency also seems like a good candidate, as it was quite influential, although I could see an argument being made against it.

That is... almost every music rhythm game that the average person would have played. Its odd that they all would be considered classics. Is this because the average gamer plays so few music games, mostly at arcades where they would have played their classic game of choice (DDR, Beatmania, maybe GH). Would it be outlandish for someone to suggest Guitar Freaks or Pop'n as classics? I could certainly see them being so, even though they are less popular, as to a certain crowd GF is much more influential (and is a much better game over all) than GH.

This is especially true if you, say, grew up in Japan during the mid 90s. I'd imagine Pop'n Music would be more of a classic to this person than Space Channel 5 or Parappa. Heck, at this point I could see an argument being made for Hatsune Miku!

It just seems like there are more classics than not in this genre. To me, this means there could be a flaw in the way we are judging a game's status as a classic (Although I'm not sure how to fix it, I just find it interesting).

... Or, more likely, the music rhythm genre is just not diverse enough, or has too few games (or too many games in one franchise). It still doesn't make our current method (whatever that may be) look too good.

[SpaceBooger]

I kinda feel bad for you dar, you seem to take a lot of flak on this site...I think you should play the games you want to play. The point of this is to have fun, not feel guilted into playing games you have no passion to play. Play whatever you want and don't worry about anyone else's opinion.

Agree 100%. As long as you're not hurting someone by doing so, which you're not, play and do what you want. If you want to play Quest for Camelot and Yu-Gi-Oh do so.

I am not trying to "guilt" anyone into playing or not playing anything, of course people can play whatever the fuck they want. If people would rather I not keep up the tradition of debating the "classic" status of games on the summer challenge list (or if people want to change the challenge to just be "clear 10 games from your backlog") then I'll be happy to STFU and see myself out of the thread.

I think you need to keep doing what you are doing. I like hearing why people consider "X" game classic and feel the need to play through it. The banter keeps the thread interesting.

[alienjesus]

For your music game selection: Everything you picked seems to fit. If DDR fits the bill, I would argue that Beatmania is a certain fit as well. Frequency also seems like a good candidate, as it was quite influential, although I could see an argument being made against it.

That is... almost every music rhythm game that the average person would have played. Its odd that they all would be considered classics. Is this because the average gamer plays so few music games, mostly at arcades where they would have played their classic game of choice (DDR, Beatmania, maybe GH). Would it be outlandish for someone to suggest Guitar Freaks or Pop'n as classics? I could certainly see them being so, even though they are less popular, as to a certain crowd GF is much more influential (and is a much better game over all) than GH.

This is especially true if you, say, grew up in Japan during the mid 90s. I'd imagine Pop'n Music would be more of a classic to this person than Space Channel 5 or Parappa. Heck, at this point I could see an argument being made for Hatsune Miku!

It just seems like there are more classics than not in this genre. To me, this means there could be a flaw in the way we are judging a game's status as a classic (Although I'm not sure how to fix it, I just find it interesting).

... Or, more likely, the music rhythm genre is just not diverse enough, or has too few games (or too many games in one franchise). It still doesn't make our current method (whatever that may be) look too good.

I wouldnt cite Project DIVA as a classic, and I fucking love that series. Same goes for Rhythm Heaven, Daigasso Band Brothers, Elite Beat Agents, Vib Ribbon, Rhyme Rider Kerorican, Gitaroo Man, Audiosurf, Cool Cool Jam and plenty of others - either they're too new or too obscure.

There are very few games in the genre that I would say made it big outside of the arcades, so I actually think that it's got a comparatively small number of 'classic' games. Arguably the reason it seems like there are so many is because most of the rhythm games anyone actually knows about were the ones that made it 'big'. Music games aren't that obscure as a genre, but they are niche enough that the obscure games are pretty unknown or forgotten even to genre fans

On the subject of Pop'n and Guitar Freaks, absolutely I think they count. Pop'n Music is still massive in Japan, and along with Guitar Freaks and the aforementioned Taiko no Tatsujin was one of the games that made the genre popular in the arcades (although all of them are less influential than the obvious DDR). Perhaps they're more obscure, but they were games that defined the genre as we know it.

For me, that's one of the things that can make a game a classic.

[dunpeal2064]

See, I love music rhythm games, and you just named a couple that I have never heard of. Awesome

Hatsune Miku I only mention because it seems to appeal to a very different audience. I'd imagine that, if one were a vocaloid fan more than a video game fan, Miku would be an instant classic to them, even with how new it is. This is the same argument I would use for the YuGiOh dual pack. YuGiOh players that are not primarily gamers would have a largely different view.

Elite Beat Agents is near classic status imo. If one were to start up a(nother) "Top # non-rpg ds games" thread, Elite Beat Agents would be one of the first games mentioned. Rhythm Heaven is a bit more obscure, that one I certainly would not include (Or any DJ Max games, Theatrhythm games, etc).

What makes it appear skewed, to me, is that there are... what, 30-40 Beatmania games? Probably close to as many DDR and Guitar Hero games. Whereas these other games, as far as I know, only have one or two entries. Of course, its silly to put the idea forth, but one's list could contain just Bemani games, and even with variety you could fill the entire list.



Maybe my perception of the thread is wrong, but I think that some non-classic games could still fit the spirit of this thread, depending on who is playing said game. Ibara, for example, is not a classic game by any means. However, if it was someone's absolute favorite game in one of their favorite genres (*ahem* Dave!), I think the game would be legendary enough to that person that their posts here would still be fitting. It would not be the same as, "Well, I never played Stretch Panic and kinda meant to, may as well kill the backlog"

I know I would visit the thread every day if Dave were attempting a 1cc of his all time favorite shmup (assuming it is still Ibara), and would not be as interested if someone was playing Metroid because they knew they should, but were just never really interested in the game.

[dsheinem]

I know I would visit the thread every day if Dave were attempting a 1cc of his all time favorite shmup (assuming it is still Ibara), and would not be as interested if someone was playing Metroid because they knew they should, but were just never really interested in the game.

When did I ever say Ibara was my favorite shmup? It might have been my favorite Cave shmup at one point, though DDP DF has edged it out at this point.

I wouldn't really consider either of those to be reasonable entries for the challenge list, though.