Jmustang1968 wrote:They used those types of scenes Sload for characterization, not necessarily to support thise actions or viewpoints. Those kinds of behaviors are exhibited by people and they try to capture that in these characters that they try to paint moral ambiguity on.
I get that they aren't supporting those actions but by not fully exploring those same actions you could argue the developers are callously using violence against women as a short cut to flesh out their gameworld (which is pretty much what the video does argue). All I'm saying is that they should think a bit harder next time. I get the intention but the execution is flawed.
For example, does Red Dead really need an endless loop of murdered prostitutes to characterise the Old West as a grim place to be? There is the seedy brothel in the tumbleweed strewn town and by the time you reach it you have already shot your way through dozens of men. Does the game really need to reinforce its setting as a western by continually having a scripted sexual assault every other time you enter Armadillo? That scene is pretty rough and has absolutely no consequence on the game as a whole. I don't see any moral ambiguity, I see a very black and white case of murder.
On top of that, I actually find it immersion breaking: how many prostitutes work at this place and why don't they hire some bouncers?!
Jmustang1968 wrote:They used those types of scenes Sload for characterization, not necessarily to support thise actions or viewpoints. Those kinds of behaviors are exhibited by people and they try to capture that in these characters that they try to paint moral ambiguity on.
I get that they aren't supporting those actions but by not fully exploring those same actions you could argue the developers are callously using violence against women as a short cut to flesh out their gameworld (which is pretty much what the video does argue). All I'm saying is that they should think a bit harder next time. I get the intention but the execution is flawed.
For example, does Red Dead really need an endless loop of murdered prostitutes to characterise the Old West as a grim place to be? There is the seedy brothel in the tumbleweed strewn town and by the time you reach it you have already shot your way through dozens of men. Does the game really need to reinforce its setting as a western by continually having a scripted sexual assault every other time you enter Armadillo? That scene is pretty rough and has absolutely no consequence on the game as a whole. I don't see any moral ambiguity, I see a very black and white case of murder.
On top of that, I actually find it immersion breaking: how many prostitutes work at this place and why don't they hire some bouncers?!
I haven't watched the video yet, but isn't this sort of a trope of the Western genre? I mean, prostitutes and violence against them have been pretty prominent in most of the well regarded Westerns in film and on TV… (e.g. Deadwood, Unforgiven, etc.). The same can be said for mafia movies or shows...
I certainly see an argument that can be made suggesting games should be a medium to innovate and "rise above" said tropes, but I think that a significant chunk of AAA developers are still shooting for film-like games in terms of their directing and their writing and have seen that as the "golden ring" to try and grab since the medium's invention. Certainly it's a flawed telos, but I think it is the primary "inspiration" in these particular cases.
Of course prostitutes are as much a part of the iconography of the western as spittoons and six-shooters. But the situation here is that, unlike a movie, this small scene plays out over and over without any real ramifications on the narrative. It just happens. You can step in or you can walk away. Either way it'll still play out again at some point when you return to the town.
I also agree that the developers, especially Rockstar, are very obviously influenced by genre movies. I found some of the criticism GTA V received in regard to its three male leads misguided because of that. How many crime or mafia movies have female leads?
My perspective is this: Clint Eastwood is Bill Munny therefore I cannot influence his actions whereas I am John Marston therefore the assault happens before me and I can influence its outcome. That's a pretty powerful divide and why I think developers need to be wary of adding violent assaults as world building.
Sload Soap wrote:Just when I was thinking the pointless shitstorm surrounding these videos was over, it raises its ugly head again. Rape and death threats made towards Sarkeesian and her family got so bad they have forced her to move house for the time.
Seems legit.
She makes these posts before she reports the threats to the police, she posts a screen cap of them immediately following that last one only 12 seconds after logging out, then later in the night tweets if you want to support feminism donate money to me...
Yea I'm going to go with I think she is sending these to herself to get publicity and money.
Sload Soap wrote:Just when I was thinking the pointless shitstorm surrounding these videos was over, it raises its ugly head again. Rape and death threats made towards Sarkeesian and her family got so bad they have forced her to move house for the time.
Seems legit.
She makes these posts before she reports the threats to the police, she posts a screen cap of them immediately following that last one only 12 seconds after logging out, then later in the night tweets if you want to support feminism donate money to me...
Yea I'm going to go with I think she is sending these to herself to get publicity and money.
flex wood wrote:
Yea I'm going to go with I think she is sending these to herself to get publicity and money.
I think at this juncture she has more than enough of both, don't you?
No I think she is starting to fall to the wayside. Look at the views from her videos they have been in a very steady decline since she started and 4chan was going after her. That is when she had the most views. Her last video before this one didn't break 300k views down from 2million when 4chan was after her.
It is a publicity stunt as far as I see it. 4chan doesn't care about her anymore. No one cares about her except the sjws that don't know the meaning of misogyny. You don't move in fear of your life then tweet asking people for money.
Yea duck you buddy. Disagreeing with someone's views and calling them out on what looks like a scam to get money and stay in the public eye is totally ad hominem.
You sure I'm not just being misogynistic by questioning the legitimacy of these specific threats too?
I don't get your reasoning. She already raised the money via Kickstarter. I haven't seen a source saying she is asking for more money. You do know this was her profession before she started doing these video game specific videos, right?
Yea duck you buddy. Disagreeing with someone's views and calling them out on what looks like a scam to get money and stay in the public eye is totally ad hominem.
You are correct. It is an ad hominem attack.
You are welcome to "call her out" with your conspiracy theories and conspiracy logic, but you should at least recognize that you are not addressing her arguments. You should also recognize that your thoughts regarding Ms. Sarkeesian's motivations for making the videos, retreating from threats, and appealing for additional funding do not add anything of value to a discussion reagarding persistent misogyny in video game culture.
Also...and just so that we are on the same page...are you seriously suggesting that Ms. Sarkeesian is sending threatening message to herself?
Last edited by prfsnl_gmr on Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
