World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[ElkinFencer10]

The middle and lower classes are absolutely worse off. States across the country are eliminating earned tax credits and raising taxes on low income families (NC is a great example of that), and education costs have skyrocketed (not to mention that in addition to being FAR more expensive, a college degree is required for MANY jobs that, 40 years ago, only required a high school diploma). Not to mention that student loan debt is one of the only types of debt that can't be discharged in bankruptcy, it's definitely more than just the rich's getting richer.


The US spends about $9,000 per person per year; the UK spends about $3,600 per person per year.
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.PCAP

[Ack]

Sure, you get what you pay for here. US citizens are still more likely to have preemptive cancer screenings, the highest survival rates of colon, rectum, lung, breast, and prostate cancer, access to the most recent treatments for chronic disease, highest identification and treatment rates for psychological disease, most advanced equipment per capita(highest number of MRI and CT scanners per million than any other country), and access to the previously mentioned medical research than anywhere else in the world, including Europe. And medical discoveries we make then go on to benefit the rest of the world.

While we have lower rates of affordability, those citizens that receive faulty care have considerably more legal options in the US than in any other nation.

Medical professionals in the US also receive the highest salaries of the world. In fact, US News & World Report just announced their 2016 Best Paying Jobs list for the United States. All 10 of the Top 10 were in the medical industry, with 14 out of the top 20 being in medical fields.

It should also be noted that because of the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act of 1986, healthcare facilities receiving any form of funding under the Medicare program(virtually all US hospitals) cannot refuse or turn away any patient needing emergency treatment regardless of their ability to pay.

[Jmustang1968]

Yet their purchasing power and average disposable income have stayed relatively steady only going down in relation with recent economic recessions, which was across the board.

Far more people are still going to college than necessary in terms of degreees while many trade-school professions and such are ignored and under-utilized.

[Ack]

The middle and lower classes are absolutely worse off. States across the country are eliminating earned tax credits and raising taxes on low income families (NC is a great example of that), and education costs have skyrocketed (not to mention that in addition to being FAR more expensive, a college degree is required for MANY jobs that, 40 years ago, only required a high school diploma). Not to mention that student loan debt is one of the only types of debt that can't be discharged in bankruptcy, it's definitely more than just the rich's getting richer.


The US spends about $9,000 per person per year; the UK spends about $3,600 per person per year.
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.PCAP

As far as universities are concerned, this may well be considered the fault of a combination of university administrations, regulatory bodies, and even attempts at education reform. I'm just going to quote this article a bunch about a 2014 report from the American Association of University Professors:

http://www.usnews.com/news/college-of-t ... -amenities

From 2000 to 2010, the median salary for top administrators at public universities rose 39 percent, according to the report. Wages for public university presidents increased by 75 percent in that time, while full-time professor salaries gained just close to 19 percent. At private colleges and universities, top administrative salaries increased at least 97 percent, with presidential salaries rising 171 percent. Full-time faculty at private and independent schools increased roughly 50 percent during the same period, the report states.

From 1978 to 2014, administrative positions rose 369 percent, according to the AAUP report. The number of part-time faculty increased by 286 percent; and full-time, non-tenure-track positions grew by 259 percent. Conversely, full-time tenure and tenure-track appointments increased just 23 percent during the same period, the report concludes.

The report found that Hartwick College is regulated by 28 federal agencies, 15 state agencies, four local governments, seven accrediting agencies, three athletic associations and four private organizations. Of the three athletic associations, the NCAA alone has at least 94 annual compliance requirements to which Hartwick must attend.

The Higher Education Compliance Alliance, which provides information and resources regarding federal compliance rules, identifies at least 259 separate federal compliance regulations all U.S. college and universities are required to report. According to the Hartwick study, the annual cost of all compliances for the college, a small liberal arts school in upstate New York with 1,500 undergraduates, totaled roughly $300,000.

Emerson’s Kociemba, however, is unconvinced and believes a one-to-one comparison of regulatory compliances and increased administrative hires doesn’t add up. To him, it’s a paltry argument and a sign of “administrative bloat.”

“Compliance costs are real, but insignificant to the argument justifying why colleges direct only 30 to 35 percent of their budgets towards instruction costs. Again, I think it’s a matter of priorities.”

When compared to Hartwick’s annual expenses, the cost of these compliances, identified in the Hartwick report, total less than 1 percent of its $76 million yearly operating budget.

Hartwick College President Margaret Drugovich, defends the findings and says the report was a first-of-its-kind attempt to gauge regulatory expenses and merely scratched the surface of actual cost.

“The caveat with [the report] is that the actual cost of compliance for Hartwick and other schools is much greater than that. Some of my colleagues estimate it to be 15 to 20, even 25 percent, of their overall operating budget. “

In response to criticism over “‘administrative bloat,”‘ Drugovich acknowledges that campus amenities contribute to the competition for students at most colleges. However, given the increasing demands to produce work-ready graduates, many schools – including Hartwick – are adding new administrative positions to help students meet the demands of the workforce.

[ElkinFencer10]

It doesn't matter who's to blame; the fact of the matter is that things ARE worse for lower and middle class families while things are BETTER for upper class families compared to thirty years ago.

[Erik_Twice]

Sure, you get what you pay for here.

Dude, 80 million people cannot pay. It's like talking about how many Buggatis there are in Dubai when talking about poverty.

I mean, you mention "access to the most recent treatments for chronic disease" as a positive of the system when 28% of Americans with those disases are forced to skip treatment because they cannot pay for it.

Again, overall, the American system is significantly less efficient and servers the public worse than far poorer countries by a huge margin. The World Health Association ranks it in the 37 spot, below the likes of Chile, Morocco and Saudi Aarabia. Let's not turn a blind eye to this by handpicking a couple good things out of it.

I stand by my words when I claim the American system is barbaric. And given that the taxpayer is spending far more than in any other country in the world, it's not a matter of "getting what they paid for", but a matter of being scammed.

EDIT: I mean, you mention CRI and MI scans. There are no medical reasons for them to be so common as they are in the US. The reason they are is, quite literally, to fill someone's pockets and do nothing but increase the overall cost of the system.

Most physicians who order imaging tests experience no consequences for incurring costs for procedures of unproven value. On the contrary, they or their colleagues are paid for their services, and their patients don’t complain because the costs are covered by third parties. Patients are pleased to receive thorough evaluations that involve the best cutting-edge technologies. Physicians can easily defend their practices because their specialty societies argue that the procedures are “appropriate.”

You mentioned the US spends twice as much on healthcare as the UK. Is that twice as much spending per head though, or twice as much spending overall?

Per head. It's far more than twice, though, it's almost three times that and around for times what Spain spends.

[Jmustang1968]

There was a lot of controversy over that 2000 WHO report, so much so they declined to do it again in 2010.

My brother who had no insurance, his fiance had a kid for free (for them) and he had a dirt bike injury where he received treatment and wasn't turned away.
My unemployed father in law is receiving chemo treatment for throat cancer right now.

I am not sure where your 28% is from but people are getting medical treatment here without the means to pay.

[Ack]

There was a lot of controversy over that 2000 WHO report, so much so they declined to do it again in 2010.

My brother who had no insurance, his fiance had a kid for free (for them) and he had a dirt bike injury where he received treatment and wasn't turned away.
My unemployed father in law is receiving chemo treatment for throat cancer right now.

I am not sure where your 28% is from but people are getting medical treatment here without the means to pay.

Hell, people get medical treatment here who aren't legal citizens, or don't have homes. I was penniless and in debt when I broke my hand in 2011. I still got all of the care I needed.

But, as he has made it abundantly clear over the years, Erik does not like the US much. I don't think it matters what evidence I were to show him on anything, we'd always be the root of all evil.

[MrPopo]

I'd say figuring out what care you can and cannot get is hard to figure out for the layperson. I have a friend who's gotten burned multiple times because she's been told things would be covered by her insurance when it actually wasn't due to some bullshit or another (it's covered under plan 21, but she's plan 21a, that sort of thing). I think most people understand that if you collapse and an ambulance gets called they'll treat you without checking your wallet for an insurance card, but if you're conscious and want to get care they aren't as sure, even if it's something major. Which debts can and cannot be forgiven? So I'd definitely agree that countries with more universal healthcare are definitely easier to figure out.

[mjmjr25]

Dude, 80 million people cannot pay

You're confusing inability to pay with inability to get treatment.

ANYONE who presents for care must be treated by law (EMTALA) regardless of their social status, inability to pay, or past history. You do not need to present insurance, a co-pay, or even an ID. A large percentage of those visists / treatments go unpaid, but the treatment is received.

Now, if you're talking about elective treatments, or getting an MRI by appointment for a sore shoulder - those are not mandated by law. However, if you present to an ER with a sore shoulder - you can / will get the MRI, CT scan, EKG or whatever other test/treatment is deemed in order.

I'm not surprised at the misinformation that some Europeans have about US Healthcare, but I am a teeny bit surprised at the information claimed here by some US citizens.

The US healthcare system is the best in the world, in quick access, access with inability to pay, medical equipment, and medical staff. Every WEEK at my facility we see new staff from Europe, the Middle East and Asia - EVERY WEEK, and the reason is the same. Better facilities, better equipment, more doctors at facilities, and better pay.