World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[Erik_Twice]

The United States spends more than any other country on healthcare. In fact, it spends more than twice the amount per capita on healthcare than France, the United Kingdom and almost three times as much as Spain and yet it's of signfiicantly worse quality and far less available to the general population than in any of those countries.

Just wanted to drop that out there, given talks about "liberal" policies requiring higher taxes or more public spending.

[ElkinFencer10]

I really do blame half of our economic problems on Reagan's "trickle down" fairy tale. That bullshit doesn't even work in theory, let alone in practice. The kicker is people here actually believe it.

[Jmustang1968]

Actually the quality always ranks well. Where it falls behind is accessibilty, efficiency, and cost.

[ElkinFencer10]

Actually the quality always ranks well. Where it falls behind is accessibilty, efficiency, and cost.

We have the best health care in the world....for the nine or ten people who can actually afford it. To hell with the rest of you plebs!

[prfsnl_gmr]

Here's is, IMO, a very important chart:





U.S. workers today are nearly 75% more productive than they were in 1973, but there wages are only 10% higher...Someone's keeping all that extra money...Who could it be? Oh yeah...








Personally, I think that these charts are troubling because they signal a shift from the "inclusive" economy that made the U.S.A. the wealthiest, most powerful nation in history to an "extractive" economy (like those found in many of the world's poorest countries).

[Ack]

The United States spends more than any other country on healthcare. In fact, it spends more than twice the amount per capita on healthcare than France, the United Kingdom and almost three times as much as Spain and yet it's of signfiicantly worse quality and far less available to the general population than in any of those countries.

Just wanted to drop that out there, given talks about "liberal" policies requiring higher taxes or more public spending.

Conversely, 9 of the top 10 hospitals in the world are American(and 17 of the top 20 are). By reputation, 2 of the top 5 hospitals are American(while a third is the American Hospital of Paris). Countries around the world regularly contact US hospitals to build models based upon ours; this is partly because medical tourism to the United States fell off after the World Trade Center attacks due to the difficulty of gaining visas for access. The export of medical equipment is a billion dollar industry in the United States. We house the largest and the best medical research facilities in the world. We also spend more money each year on medical research and development than anywhere else, roughly 50% more than all of Europe combined(in 2012 alone, US: $120 billion USD, Europe: $80 billion USD) and double that of all Asia-Oceania nations.

[Jmustang1968]

Personally, I think that these charts are troubling because they signal a shift from the "inclusive" economy that made the U.S.A. the wealthiest, most powerful nation in history to an "extractive" economy (like those found in many of the world's poorest countries).

Ssome of the rich are richer but the middle and poor arent really any worse off than they were before relatively. I think it is misleading to compare us to the poor countries where a few elites hold all the money while most of the population is destitute and in poverty. USA middle class has a relatively very high quality of life.

Are there things we can improve and work on? Yes, but some of these other issues are exaggerated.

[prfsnl_gmr]

Some of the rich are richer but the middle and poor arent really any worse off than they were before relatively. I think it is misleading to compare us to the poor countries where a few elites hold all the money while most of the population is destitute and in poverty. USA middle class has a relatively very high quality of life.

Are there things we can improve and work on? Yes, but some of these other issues are exagerrated.

In light of the drastically increased costs (in real terms) associated with housing, higher education, and medical care since 1973, I disagree that the middle and poor are no worse off. Moreover, and even if they were no worse off, I would expect them to be drastically better off given the extraordinary increase in worker productivity since that time.

I agree that the poor and middle class have a higher standard of living in the U.S.A. than they do elsewhere, and I also agree that our economy is much more inclusive than those in poorer countries. Nonetheless, I find the trend illustrated by those charts disturbing, and I think that we should tailor our public policy to reverse it.

[Erik_Twice]

Sure, but the existence of a handful of excellent hospitals doesn't change the fact that the system as a whole is far more expensive and gives out worse treatment than the vast majority of Western countries.

The existence of Mayo Clinic is no consolation to tens of millions of Americans who don't go to the doctor or don't buy the medicines they need because they cannot afford it. According to Pew Report, 26% of Americans are incapable of affording medical care which rises to over 55% for those with a low-income.

For comparison, it gives 12% for Italy, 11% for Britain, 8% for Germany and 5% for Spain and France.

Personally, I think that's barbaric. It's unacceptable for the richest country of the world to not only fail to its more vulnerable citizens to such a degree but it's also unacceptable that they fail despite spending far more than any other country in the area!

[alienjesus]

Personally, I think that's barbaric. It's unacceptable for the richest country of the world to not only fail to its more vulnerable citizens to such a degree but it's also unacceptable that they fail despite spending far more than any other country in the area!

You mentioned the US spends twice as much on healthcare as the UK. Is that twice as much spending per head though, or twice as much spending overall? Because if it's overall, than they're spending far less in real terms - twice as much money over 5x the population and 40x the landmass (a genuine concern as more landmass needs more equipment over more hospitals and doctors surgeries to cover a wider spread of people) is actually probably a lot less spent on healthcare.