World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

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Erik_Twice
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by Erik_Twice »

Forlom and BoringSupreez are right, the internet, specially the internet we gaming forum-goers may visit is overwhelmingly "liberal", much more than the actual demographics would show. Most creators of opinion (Critics, journalists, Wikipedian editors) are also far more left-leaning than average and when it comes to gaming it's beyond ridiculous.

I'm far more of a "leftie" than the vast majority of this site and far more left-wing than 95% of Americans yet I'm a fascist right-wing gamergater by internet standards.
BoneSnapDeez wrote:Have you not noticed that the gaming community - not to mention the internet writ large - is absolutely crawling with reactionary elements? Are you unaware of reddit, 4chan, The Escapist, and so on? I don't blame you if you avoid such websites - they're terrible - but let's not pretend they don't exist.
None of these sites are "conservative" unless your definition of the term is "everything that I consider evil". You won't find the views of Sarkozy, Rajoy or the Catholic Church represented in any of those sites.

The only reason why people say these outlets are considered "conservative" is petty tribalism, that is, they are not "in enough agreement" with the opinion of ideological leaders to be considered good guys so they must part of the enemy horde.
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by mjmjr25 »

BoringSupreez wrote: Yes, Racketboy is more aggressively leftist than the internet as a whole. On none of the other websites I post on do I receive as much hostility for voicing my honest opinions as I do here. And every time someone points out the situation here - because Forlorn and myself are not the first to do this - the denial is always the same.
Thanks for posting this and i'm sorry I haven't chimed in more lately. Honestly, i've just been sort of defeated that I really only post about games here now...or lately, just not at all. For all the patting on the back we like to do here about being welcoming and tolerant - the other forums i'm on are for more open to hearing conservative views.
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by jp1 »

mjmjr25 wrote:
BoringSupreez wrote: Yes, Racketboy is more aggressively leftist than the internet as a whole. On none of the other websites I post on do I receive as much hostility for voicing my honest opinions as I do here. And every time someone points out the situation here - because Forlorn and myself are not the first to do this - the denial is always the same.
Thanks for posting this and i'm sorry I haven't chimed in more lately. Honestly, i've just been sort of defeated that I really only post about games here now...or lately, just not at all. For all the patting on the back we like to do here about being welcoming and tolerant - the other forums i'm on are for more open to hearing conservative views.
Hmmm, I'm a little surprised to hear you lumping yourself in with some of the other "conservatives" in this manner. Admittedly, we haven't talked politics, but we have talked religion some and even here I feel like you strive to offer a more even handed and less bigoted approach than other members who are complaining about their honest opinions not being appreciated.

Could be I'm totally off base on that, but unless you say otherwise I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Here's my thing. No matter what your views (or my views) may be, they are far more likely to be shown a manner of respect and consideration if they are presented in a fashion that shows the same respect and consideration you are looking to garner. If you pop in and start running foul about an entire group of people, like some other "conservatives" have done, of course you are going to get some heat for it. I probably wouldn't fall in your good graces by diminishing the value of you or someone you love as a person based on my own beliefs. I think that is really the issue I've witnessed here on the forums. If there is something more at play, I've missed it. Feel free to point it out, here or via PM if you like.

In any case. Let me point out that the only reason I've been encapsulating the word conservatives with quotations is because certain members who aren't you like to hide behind the moniker as if it gives them a right to be racist, homophobic, bigoted, or otherwise intolerant of entire sections of society. While I concur those members do in fact have the right to feel that way, I disagree that they have the right to push it into the faces of people who do not believe the same things. Certainly not under some entitlement of a political or religious belief standpoint.

I've never felt that you personally do this, and I'm certainly not insinuating that at this point. I just don't understand how that isn't the clear issue at hand to anyone without an agenda.

There are other conservatives on the board who speak freely about their beliefs, in a respectful and considerate manner and I rarely see them get lambasted for it. This sort of goes against the whole bias theory. I've had disagreements with some of them even, based on our not seeing eye to eye, however we have been able to manage with some level of tact. Being conservative or even liberal for that matter doesn't have to go hand in hand with being willfully ignorant of the views and life experiences of others.

Just my $.02, no offense intended.

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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by Forlorn Drifter »

"Just don't shove those beliefs on others"

Did... did any of the liberals get that memo? Because I have heard that more times in my life than I'd like to admit, yet when I say that, I'm the asshole.
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MrPopo
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by MrPopo »

Forlorn Drifter wrote:"Just don't shove those beliefs on others"

Did... did any of the liberals get that memo? Because I have heard that more times in my life than I'd like to admit, yet when I say that, I'm the asshole.
To pick a standard issue, gay marriage. Conservatives don't want it allowed, liberals want it allowed. If conservatives ban gay marriage that pushes their belief that two people of the same sex shouldn't marry on everyone else, such as the two people of the same sex. In the reverse, the conservative who doesn't think gay marriage is ok isn't suddenly obligated to get gay married even though it is now an option. That's why it's a case of conservatives pushing their beliefs on others but not the other way around. Many of the hot button social issues tend to follow this pattern of conservatives going "you can't do that" and liberals saying "you should be allowed to do that if you want to". Not all of them; gun control being a notable outlier.
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jp1
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by jp1 »

Forlorn Drifter wrote:"Just don't shove those beliefs on others"

Did... did any of the liberals get that memo? Because I have heard that more times in my life than I'd like to admit, yet when I say that, I'm the asshole.
There are a plethora of liberals right on these boards who treat you with respect on a daily basis. All while knowing your stance on these issues you don't feel you are being given the freedom to have without persecution. Do you feel that just because we might disagree on something, I have to hate you? Or even consider you an asshole? That's a sad outlook my man.

There are extreme examples of any group of people, liberals are not the exception. I don't deny you that you may have been treated poorly by some liberals in the past, but like everyone else we all deserve our fair shake as individuals.
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by Forlorn Drifter »

Disagreeing is saying that I am wrong, and if you believe that an idea is wrong, the person holding it is wrong. As such, if you hate an idea, and a person holds that idea, do you not hate that person?

Tell me I'm wrong, whatever. But if I am wrong, there's some arguments I've had on this site that I have now won.

Plus, it seems anyone willing to call themselves conservative here gets basic tolerance, far from acceptance. You can have a non-liberal position... but don't voice it. Don't ever voice it.
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jp1
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by jp1 »

Forlorn Drifter wrote:Disagreeing is saying that I am wrong, and if you believe that an idea is wrong, the person holding it is wrong. As such, if you hate an idea, and a person holds that idea, do you not hate that person?

Tell me I'm wrong, whatever. But if I am wrong, there's some arguments I've had on this site that I have now won.

Plus, it seems anyone willing to call themselves conservative here gets basic tolerance, far from acceptance. You can have a non-liberal position... but don't voice it. Don't ever voice it.
Dude, that chain of logic is so flawed I can't even begin to try and unravel it for you. Can you have a belief or an idea that I disagree with, or even hate, and in turn I do not hate you personally?

Hell yes. I have close friends with beliefs that I disagree with. We all have different life experiences and in such different environments that we couldn't possibly all agree on everything. Moreover, a religion that we share has been shown even in my experience to push beliefs that I do not agree with. Perhaps they spoke to you on a different level. Who the hell am I to judge? Disagree, vehemently sometimes even, but never judge...and certainly never hate. If I catch myself running down that road, I hit the brakes hard.

I am strong in my convictions, but not so deeply entrenched in them to be deluded into thinking I have the singular truth of all things. I'm sorry you feel so looked down upon, but that's not my baggage my friend. I accept and respect your right to believe whatever you like, and even to express it. Do you respect my right to voice my opposition to those beliefs? If so, we can even be friends.
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by Forlorn Drifter »

I don't if they even begin to step on what I believe is right, which they often do. I have long given up on friends, they are a made up fairly tale, they don't exist.

I have been lambasted on this site for my views on gay marriage in relation to religion- saying exactly the doctrine of my church, using the "hate the sin, not the sinner" argument, and been bashed over the head that I am a bigoted asshole. I watch people joke about rednecks and bible thumpers and all that- and being so few steps away, I get pretty pissed at these high city assholes getting laugh and mock the bumpkin. But no, if they say that this is how morality is now, fall in line or be silenced

And never judge my ass. You judge. I judge. Everyone judges, we just don't like to admit because it does make us an asshole.
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Re: So the whole world is kind of falling apart...

Post by ElkinFencer10 »

For me, personally, the biggest thing is that there are certain opinions that I don't think deserve respect (or that aren't even opinions at all, really). "Illegal immigrants shouldn't be treated at hospitals" is an example of an opinion that I don't think deserves respect because I'm not okay leaving anyone to die from nothing more than a lack of otherwise easily accessible medical care (I haven't seen anyone here say that; it's just an example). Something like "Homosexuality is a choice" isn't an opinion that deserves respect because it's not an opinion at all; it's flat out false. Conservatives (at least from what I see on the internet, though I'm by no means omniscient) more often voice those ideas than liberals, but liberals aren't immune. "Vaccines cause autism" and "Bush and Cheney planned 9/11" both fall into that category as far as I'm concerned - the first is demonstrably false, and the second is so ridiculous, unfounded, and insulting to the office of the President of the United States that it doesn't even deserve consideration.

Only tangentially related, I know, but while we're on the topic of why conservatives feel targeted, I figured I'd throw in my two cents and observations. Please note that the above paragraph is based purely on my own personal observations and is by no means based in any legitimate research or statistics, nor am I trying to accuse or point fingers at anyone here. I made only generalized observations with a broad brush; please take it as such.
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