The Wrestling Thread

[Luke]

I really see wrestling as a dying sport with the rise of things like UFC. Wrestling will be only good to kids

Wrestling isn't a dying sport by any means. The WWE will stay strong for decades to come.

Plus, people are paid to take dives in the UFC just like people are paid to take a dive in boxing.

[Menegrothx]

Jim Cornette and Paul Heyman disagree with you Luke. It's not gonna go away, but the truth is that MMA has dropped viewer rates and attendance both in Japan and USA. I don't know about Mexico, but I think it's safe to assume it has had some impact on there too. Atleast here the decline of WWEs popularity and the rise of UFC happened simultaneously

If WWE was like WWF in 1998-2001, I don't know if it would have such a big effect on it's popularity. But it's young male adult demographic that was lost from pro wrestling to MMA with the rise of UFC and more importantly the change from "Attitude to PG" in WWE. It's not just blood and tits that people miss, better storylines, booking, crowd reaction, more real promos with no scriptwriters etc. There was bad wrestling and stupid stuff in the undercard in 1998/1999, but like I've said before, I think Wrestlemania 16-Wrestlemania 17 time perioid was the peak of WWF&WWE

I think performing a real hit once in a while or during a PPV is not the issue, the issue is that the WWE makes a wrestling perform 3-4 times a week for 10 years that is only natural to take a toll over your body.

I seriously don't see the point in house shows. Yes, it's the only way us who don't live in the US/Canada can see the product live, but I'd rather see better in ring action in the actual broadcasts. Sure they make money off of them, but I think they'd make a lot more money if they let their wrestlers rest, and have them perform better in the actual TV shows, which would mean a lot more ratings because those broadcasts are seen by millions of people world wide and not just by some 5000-10 000 people in a house show. Not only that, but traveling around the world to these house shows is equally punishing to these wrestlers if not more than the actual house shows. Why not do Raw on Monday, Smackdown on Friday and PPV on every 4th Sunday and let the wrestlers rest the rest of the days? And PPVs 12 time a year are not necessary if they don't have enough talent and good storylines to justify that. That's a lot more days of not having to wrestler or travel than any indy wreslters have, surely it's enough to guarantee that wrestlers won't injure nearly as much in the ring nor have stress&mental problems that lead to alcoholism and drugs (from traveling so much), which again would mean that they could put on better performances in the TV shows.

[BurningDoom]

I really see wrestling as a dying sport with the rise of things like UFC. Wrestling will be only good to kids

Wrestling isn't a dying sport by any means. The WWE will stay strong for decades to come.

Plus, people are paid to take dives in the UFC just like people are paid to take a dive in boxing.

Maybe in the other MMA companies like Bellator. But in UFC, Dana White is a controlling mofo that is a complete purist. I doubt he'd allow any pay-offs to happen, and if they did, there'd be SEVERE consequences, I'm sure. He's had no problem fining and suspending his stars for infractions for other stuff.

[RCBH928]

@Luke

Its not dying as in there will never be a wrestling show ever again, but wrestling that used to be a huge factor in pop culture is no more. Actually this thing is already happening. Stars of today are no where as big as they used to be in the 80's . Hogan and Undertaker reached house-hold name levels . John Cena's hand taunt is more famous than he is as far as I can tell, Cena joined WWE in '02 and he has been there for around 11 years now, thats almost double the time it took The Rock and Austin to reach a far more popular levels. I see wrestling in the future as something that is underground like communities like CZW with extreme niche markets and WWE as being the kids show as it is right now. I must say though I was very surprised that WWE is coming up with one of their wrestlers coming out of the closet as gay, does that match the PG level or the 6-13 year old target of the WWE?


@menegrothx

Returning to the attitude era style might surge viewership a bit but no where near the attitude era. I really think the attitude era was more about the culture of that time period. You really have to factor in other entertainment sources and lack of social activities. IIRC people used to pay 1-800 numbers to get rumors from WCW and ECW. Today we can know any wrestler's life story through a click of a button in my cell phone which most people didn't own back in '97 . Let us not forget the plethora of stars in that era was just unimaginable . Nitro once had Rick Flair vs Macho Man for its starting match. In a different era , that kind of match would probably be hyped a year ahead.

It is much better for WWE to target kids as a business decision because there will always be kids, and wrestling appeals to kids big time . Thats a guaranteed source of income and they have no competition for it, not even TNA targets kids. WWE will crash any new and upcoming competition, which no one even has the intention to start (not sure why no one sees opening a wrestling federation as a business opportunity) .

As for PPVs, it used to be a huge thing but Eric Bischoff to give it a test move from 5-6 PPVs a year to more, and every time he added a PPV it was profitable until they reached a number of 12 PPVs a year or 1 PPV per month. That is when the WWF started doing the In Your House PPVs because they didn't have a theme PPVs thought out to come back at WCW. Given how boring WWE's PPVs are now, I think its better if they kept them down to 6 PPVs a year and 6 Big Night Raws. Not your usual raw, but not PPV quality either.

btw, is Hogan leaving TNA for real or is it an angle. He sure did not add to the show, but he got the media to pay attention to them.

[Menegrothx]

Cena joined WWE in '02 and he has been there for around 11 years now, thats almost double the time it took The Rock and Austin to reach a far more popular levels.

That's true, but as a general rule wrestlers had to pay their dues (wrestler around in indy/regional promotions, low salary and low fame, show respect to their elders and show that they respect the business and are capable enough to be champions) for a lot longer. In this era WWE (WCW did this too) has it's own little federation for training new stars. Guys like Goldberg, Kurt Angle, Batista, John Cena and Randy Orton reached the top (heavyweight/WWF championship) in under 2 years. Compare that to Chris Benoit (started wrestling in 1985, won the belt in 2004), Chris Jericho (started wrestling in 1990, won the belt briefly in 2000, Undisputed in 2001-2002, first real title reign was in 2007 or 2008), Eddie Guerrero (Started wrestling in 1992 [though he did wrestle long before that], won the belt in 2004) and Mick Foley (started wrestling in 1983, won the belt in end of 1998, like the last week of December if I recall). Even a guy like Ultimate Warrior had to wrestle 5 years before he became the WWF champion.

That is a big problem, when you have guys who aren't skilled enough or ready to be champions leading the show. Those guys who I listed were the "last breed" of wrestlers who came into the wrestling world the old fashioned way, and out of them Chris Jericho is the only guy who's still alive and actively wrestles.

I was very surprised that WWE is coming up with one of their wrestlers coming out of the closet as gay, does that match the PG level or the 6-13 year old target of the WWE?

Did WWE admit it? I only saw it on a news site. There's nothing inherently "anti-PG" in being a gay wrestler, as long as it's just that, a wrestler who also happens to be gay and not some kind of gimmick that his opponents use in promos to taunt him etc. Kids will sooner or later learn about it (that such thing as gays exist) anyways. Younger kids probably don't really care about things like that, while maybe kids in the 10-13 age group do.

[BurningDoom]

I don't see how WWE is getting away with claiming Darren Young is the first gay wrestler they've had.

What about Justin Gabriel?

What about Orlando Jordan?

And while Goldust isn't really gay, his character definetly had gay tendencies (remember his little crush on Razor Ramone?). Don't know if that really counts; but that was in the "New Generation" era, when things weren't quite Attitude Era yet and it was still aimed at the kiddies. (Since people were bringing up the subject in the face of the PG Era.)

But before them, even. This one guy should go down in the history books as being the first openly gay wrestler, becuase he's also the first ever WWE Intercontinental Champion, and returned as an onscreen character (but not wrestler) in the Attitude Era.

Pat freaking Patterson!

[Menegrothx]

Pat Patterson is gay? Well that explains the evening gown match

[Luke]

Virgil and Million Dollar Man sooooooo got it on.

[GazongaJoe]

I want gld dist 2 win it awl.

[RCBH928]

Did WWE admit it? I only saw it on a news site. There's nothing inherently "anti-PG" in being a gay wrestler, as long as it's just that, a wrestler who also happens to be gay and not some kind of gimmick that his opponents use in promos to taunt him etc. Kids will sooner or later learn about it (that such thing as gays exist) anyways. Younger kids probably don't really care about things like that, while maybe kids in the 10-13 age group do.

If kids are not allowed to know about sex, they are probably shouldn't be allowed to know about what being gay is. Lets assume a 9 year old watches this on WWE then asks his father , "Dad , what does being gay means"... maybe some will be ok with it, but I bet a whole lot of people will be upset even those who do support gay marriage.