Game collecting is not what it once was

[dunpeal2064]

It would take much longer to get a no-hit run in Ibara than to slay every monster in Monster Hunter. I've played both games. It actually probably isn't possible to no-miss Ibara.

Mushihimesama... Original? Sure. Ultra? no, you could catch all 718 pokemon AND kill everything in Monster Hunter before you could perfect, no-miss Ultra mode in Mushihimesama.

I've been playing Mushihimesama Futari for years, and I can't even get to stage 5 in ultra, yet I have since then caught every pokeman known to man AND killed just about everything in Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate.

And yeah, I guess if you weren't talking about shmups in the first place, then thats fine. But thats what Mike was talking about in his initial post, afaik.

[alienjesus]

I would ask... how do you guys think a shmup should be played? Infinite credits?

I vote "play for fun", as foreign as a concept that might be in the hyper-competitive scene.

Agreed.

Sick of seeing these 1CC master race / "but you haven't really beaten the game" conversations pop up every couple of months.

The fact of the matter is that most gamers likely don't give a monkey's toss about the "competitive scene" and are playing for fun and recreation.

It's also a symptom of the modern bullet hell shooter too imo - infinite continues available, and they start you off exactly where you were if you continue when you die. There's only 2 options available - be absolutely perfect, or don't worry about using continues.

They really should have an option to restart the level when you die imo - then you could have the best of both worlds. Old shmups like Blazing Lazers have that by default, and I've never heard people complain that I didn't beat one of those because I used continues and didn't 1CC it.

[vatermuzik]

I would ask... how do you guys think a shmup should be played? Infinite credits?

I vote "play for fun", as foreign as a concept that might be in the hyper-competitive scene.

Agreed.

Sick of seeing these 1CC master race / "but you haven't really beaten the game" conversations pop up every couple of months.

The fact of the matter is that most gamers likely don't give a monkey's toss about the "competitive scene" and are playing for fun and recreation.

This.

To be honest, I had no idea that there were such polarizing opinions concerning the criteria for playing and/or finishing games. I'll easily admit that I just play for recreation and have no knowledge of competitive play. As an outsider looking in, it seems a tad harsh. I'm stuck in a simpler time, I guess.

[dsheinem]

playing for competitive play and playing for a 1cc are not the same.

[Jmustang1968]

Getting to the end credits is basically what counts as beating the game to most as you have seen atleast most, if not all, of the game's content. Going further with high scores and no continues is more like mastering and gaining skill in the game.

But these games are so different and played for different reasons, that trying to compare them is a somewhat futile task.

[Jmustang1968]

playing for competitive play and playing for a 1cc are not the same.

So in your games beaten list, you only count 1cc?

[BoneSnapDeez]

This conversation started with Dave and discussing backlog. The point being made is that if you take Metal Slug 3 off of your shelf and continue 17 times to clear it that "no, you did not beat this game." You know nothing about it if it took you 17 credits. Yes, you played it, and you may have even had fun, but you did not beat the game.

I can 1CC Metal Slug. It takes me, I dunno, 4 credits each to complete the sequels.

I do not "know more" about the first game. Whether it takes me one credit, a dolla, or more I can still observe and analyze the game's music, graphics, mechanics, etc.

And of course there is a middle ground here. Not everyone who can't pull a 1CC is mindlessly pumping in quarters (real or virtual).

Moving on, I ultimately find these "but shmups must be 1CC'ed!" discussions rather silly because, simply put, the games aren't designed that way. In many cases (as seems to be the case with Cave shmups, in fact!) the developers allow the player to continue, or even "credit-feed." I let the developers and actual game design/mechanics dictate whether or not I can/"should" continue, not the Masters of Gaming on internet message boards.

In summation, not everyone is into "competitive" gaming (and I would venture a guess that most people are in fact not) and it seems pointless to try to dictate, or even care, about how others choose to play and beat their games.

[mjmjr25]

Agreed.

Sick of seeing these 1CC master race / "but you haven't really beaten the game" conversations pop up every couple of months.

It shouldn't make you sick. It's an opinion on what beating a game means.

If someone warps on Mario Bros and "beats the game" in 10 minutes by skipping some of the harder levels - did they really beat the game? I don't think so, nor do I think they experienced the game.

If all you want is to look at pretty colors and run around the screen, then I think Minecraft is perfect for that mindset. For people who want to buy a game and beat my criteria is beating it on a credit. I fail over 95% of the time - but that 5% has a completely different feeling. The feeling of actually beating the game.

The discussion is beating games - not playing games.

[dunpeal2064]

Moving on, I ultimately find these "but shmups must be 1CC'ed!" discussions rather silly because, simply put, the games aren't designed that way.

As far as Cave games go, Yes they are. They are absolutely designed to be 1cc'd. There is a ton of proof that they are, and no proof that they aren't.

Again, why would there be TWO completely different loops in Ketsui, that both change the gameplay entirely from the first loop, both of which are inaccessible if you continue. Thats 2/3 of the game that you will never, ever see if you insert a credit.

They "let" you continue, because they want money, and if you are willing to give them money, then cool. Maybe you just need to practice Stage 4, so you continue, but that is all with the goal of clearing the game on one credit. They design the entire game around scoring, and they take away your score when you continue. They lock content out of you continue. The games are all balanced very fairly for a single credit play.

The evidence that these games are designed to be played on one credit is monumental.

[Jmustang1968]

Moving on, I ultimately find these "but shmups must be 1CC'ed!" discussions rather silly because, simply put, the games aren't designed that way.

As far as Cave games go, Yes they are. They are absolutely designed to be 1cc'd. There is a ton of proof that they are, and no proof that they aren't.

Again, why would there be TWO completely different loops in Ketsui, that both change the gameplay entirely from the first loop, both of which are inaccessible if you continue. Thats 2/3 of the game that yo uwill never, ever see if you insert a credit.

There are branching dialog options, side quests, NPCs, battles etc that cant be done on 1 playthrough in an RPG and would require multiple to see every bit of content, yet getting through to the end counts as beating the game. This debate is silly.