World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[MrPopo]

Well, both have an "I" and "s" in their spelling, in that order, so that makes them practically the same, right?

[Flake]

...and I was right. Russia confirmed that it was a terrorist act that brought that plane down and has begun firing cruise missiles at targets within Syria.

So now we get to see if Russia can live up to the reputation they have been building for themselves the last few years.

[Jmustang1968]

What the fuck?

I think a post comparing Islam to National Socialism can only be read as a willing ignorance to understand anything about either. It's bullshit, stupid, offensive, and not the kind of discourse I'd typically expect to find on the forums. This shit belongs in the comments section of a Breitbart article or on a militia group's forum: not here.

As somewhat of an aside, as you know I do not practice any religion, but respect those who do. I often see those with a more liberal mindset such as yourself denounce or say negative things about Christianity, yet often defend Islam. Now, the Nazi and Islam comparison above is ridiculous, and I am not speaking on that.

But how do those progressives who defend Islam come to terms with their very non progressive beliefs and practices, and often praise its virtues? Is it based somewhat from US partisan politics? Things such as women's rights, treatments of gays and transgender, treatment of other religions, freedoms of speech etc... Countries with these theocratic governments such as Iran for example, jail those at the least and will condone beatings, stonings, or even sentencing to death for those above mentioned "crimes".

This just a question that I have had awhile and had a perceived contradiction about.

[Pulsar_t]

His rotation in Turkey must have triggered latent prejudice genes

Has anyone read the wikis I posted earlier? I'm interested in your opinions.

[dsheinem]

What the fuck?

I think a post comparing Islam to National Socialism can only be read as a willing ignorance to understand anything about either. It's bullshit, stupid, offensive, and not the kind of discourse I'd typically expect to find on the forums. This shit belongs in the comments section of a Breitbart article or on a militia group's forum: not here.

As somewhat of an aside, as you know I do not practice any religion, but respect those who do. I often see those with a more liberal mindset such as yourself denounce or say negative things about Christianity, yet often defend Islam. Now, the Nazi and Islam comparison above is ridiculous, and I am not speaking on that.

But how do those progressives who defend Islam come to terms with their very non progressive beliefs and practices, and often praise its virtues? Is it based somewhat from US partisan politics? Things such as women's rights, treatments of gays and transgender, treatment of other religions, freedoms of speech etc... Countries with these theocratic governments such as Iran for example, jail those at the least and will condone beatings, stonings, or even sentencing to death for those above mentioned "crimes".

This just a question that I have had awhile and had a perceived contradiction about.

I think that it is pretty simple: anyone who uses or interprets their ideology to harm others is despicable, anyone who doesn't is cool. We have models of peaceful Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc. that I believe are worth respecting by in large as someone's chosen way of life. But, anyone who would rather practice that belief system by imposing it on others or harming others for not adhering to it is a douche.

The "defense" of Islam comes mostly from a place of not liking to see all interpretations of the faith - including peaceful ones - lumped in together with Shariah law governments, ISIS and its ilk, etc. This, unfortunately, is common in America. If there was a common narrative in the USA that Christianity was basically the KKK, Westboro, and abortion clinic bombers, I'd feel a need to speak out more about that.

[Jmustang1968]

As somewhat of an aside, as you know I do not practice any religion, but respect those who do. I often see those with a more liberal mindset such as yourself denounce or say negative things about Christianity, yet often defend Islam. Now, the Nazi and Islam comparison above is ridiculous, and I am not speaking on that.

But how do those progressives who defend Islam come to terms with their very non progressive beliefs and practices, and often praise its virtues? Is it based somewhat from US partisan politics? Things such as women's rights, treatments of gays and transgender, treatment of other religions, freedoms of speech etc... Countries with these theocratic governments such as Iran for example, jail those at the least and will condone beatings, stonings, or even sentencing to death for those above mentioned "crimes".

This just a question that I have had awhile and had a perceived contradiction about.

I think that it is pretty simple: anyone who uses or interprets their ideology to harm others is despicable, anyone who doesn't is cool. We have models of peaceful Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc. that I believe are worth respecting by in large as someone's chosen way of life. But, anyone who would rather practice that belief system by imposing it on others or harming others for not adhering to it is a douche.

The "defense" of Islam comes mostly from a place of not liking to see all interpretations of the faith - including peaceful ones - lumped in together with Shariah law governments, ISIS and its ilk, etc. This, unfortunately, is common in America. If there was a common narrative in the USA that Christianity was basically the KKK, Westboro, and abortion clinic bombers, I'd feel a need to speak out more about that.

My only counter to that is people who associate with KKK, Westboro etc... are a super fringe minority. Whereas, entire countries and Islamic centric governments act in such a way. Women and gays are seemingly universally subjugated and harshly judged, in these Islamic societies far more than in Christian based. So while they are still peaceful, it doesnt account for the rights issues above that usually sets the progressives off in US politics.

[Pulsar_t]

I still say that our world hasn't changed radically in the past 100 or so years as we're led to believe and that our lives are decided by a handful of bureaucrats, which is why I find this discourse superfluous. On a lighter note:

[dsheinem]

My only counter to that is people who associate with KKK, Westboro etc... are a super fringe minority. Whereas, entire countries and Islamic centric governments act in such a way. Women and gays are seemingly universally subjugated and harshly judged, in these Islamic societies far more than in Christian based. So while they are still peaceful, it doesnt account for the rights issues above that usually sets the progressives off in US politics.

There are larger Christian institutions that are as discriminatory. The Catholic Church still preaches a lot of intolerance, many Christian-dominant countries in Africa have harsh penalties for homosexuality, majorly popular televengalists in the USA say hateful things, etc. Most progressives call those things out while also holding up more peaceful and tolerant versions of the faith. I take your point, but I don't see the implied hypocrisy writ large.

[ZeroAX]

As I always say, treat the people with dignity, but question the shit out of their ideology.

I don't want the borders to close, I've seen how much regugees are sufferring, I have Syrian refugee friends here in the Netherlands, and I believe we should keep accepting these people and not try to lock them out because of 12 monsters.

But I'm fed up with fanatic leftists acting like fucking smurfs and saying "if we all hug together, it will be ok". No it will not. Germans were never evil people either, but they let an ideology full of hatred to grow and poison their national soul.

Islam is no different than any other violent filled religion (from christianity, to pagan religions), so I would never ask it to be banned or cencored or whatever. But please tell me if it's too much to ask to be socially unaccceptable for muslims to ever say that violence is acceptable. because I don't know if you read the stories, back when the charlie hedbo thing happened, they kept a moment of silence in French schools and there were muslim kids who were being disrespectful and saying that the journalists deserved it.

Now THINK. If I were a white supremacist and raised my kid to openly support violence against black people, would my kid be taken away from me by the state or not? If I were raizing a little nazi? It would and that would be the appropriate thing to do.

But no, because it is something that has to do with religion, behavior that is considerred unacceptable in any developed society is suddenly something "you have to put up with" because of a person's religion. And we're not even getting into the entire gays, women and islam debate (as a person who used to date an ex-muslim girl, I feel I'm too emotional about this specific part of the subject to offer a neutral view)


Again my problem is not exclusively with islam, which I consider just an ideology like any other. my problem is why we excuse unacceptable behavior when it's in the name of religion. This is why I just hate this debate.

I feel like people are offering only two options: kill them all or let them all do what they please. Since when were extremes considerred an acceptable solution? Where's the fucking middle ground in this debate?

I don't know how it is in the states, but in Europe it feels like that.

[Forlorn Drifter]

My only counter to that is people who associate with KKK, Westboro etc... are a super fringe minority. Whereas, entire countries and Islamic centric governments act in such a way. Women and gays are seemingly universally subjugated and harshly judged, in these Islamic societies far more than in Christian based. So while they are still peaceful, it doesnt account for the rights issues above that usually sets the progressives off in US politics.

There are larger Christian institutions that are as discriminatory. The Catholic Church still preaches a lot of intolerance, many Christian-dominant countries in Africa have harsh penalties for homosexuality, majorly popular televengalists in the USA say hateful things, etc. Most progressives call those things out while also holding up more peaceful and tolerant versions of the faith. I take your point, but I don't see the implied hypocrisy writ large.

I see what both of you are saying, but considering I've had my face spit in/been physically assaulted in a "progressive" church for refusing to go to a gay marriage ceremony, I question the "more tolerant versions" portion of your post.

There's other things I'd argue on both posts, but that's not worth getting into.