Random Gaming Thoughts

[marurun]

I actually don't disagree, but I thought I'd better make sure my snarky reply was in blue text so you knew I was just being a goof.

I think there's actually an important difference between the difficulty of stuff like Dark Souls and some of the older NES hard games: while some of the NES hard games had quick responses on inputs, many NES games had either input delay or character animation delays and other input issues that contributed to their challenge, and that's on top of already abstruse designs for levels and mechanics.

[Ziggy]

I'm too lazy to go back and read this current line of talk from the start, but to chime in anyway...

8 and 16 bit games can be hard, and we know it was on purpose for various reasons. But they are intuitive on how to play, and what you should be doing. Dark Souls, for me, is hard in a way that I'm not quite sure what I'm suppose to be doing, and if what I'm currently doing is correct. Perhaps that's how the game is suppose to be. But to me, the 8 and 16 bit games are easier in this regard.

[MrPopo]

That might be a you specific thing, as I find that the Souls stuff does have a script it wants you to follow in order to succeed; wait for openings and strike. It's not too dissimilar from 2D game boss patterns in that way, where this part of the script you need to focus on dodging and then you have this opening to get in attacks of your own. So it might be that the shift from 2D to 3D for you has decreased your comprehension of that, sort of a color blindness.

[Ziggy]

I meant more what am I suppose to be doing in the grand scheme of things. I get that if there's a fork in the path, to the left are combatants that I can't possible survive and to the right are ones that I can. But that aside, I never feel clear confirmation that I'm on the right track. Perhaps that's how it's designed, to feel less linear. But that's my point. In 8 and 16 bit games, you general go from the left of the screen to the right. It's in that regard that these games are easier.

[MrPopo]

Ahh, I get what you're saying. It might be best to think of it like Metroid in that regard (specifically Metroid 1). You're going to need to visit everything, as each area is going to eventually terminate in some sort of key item or event flag that will open up a road for you. But you have a fair amount of freedom of which paths to go down (assuming you can handle the enemies).

[Ziggy]

I think I've started a new game twice now, and something about it just hasn't clicked. I will give it another try at some point, and as many tries I need to until it finally clicks with me. Thinking about it like Metroid is a good tip, I will keep that in mind the next time I fire it up.

[RCBH928]

Mod note: Though not explicitly listed in site rules, please reserve red text for mod warnings.

I didn't know there was a mod warning colour.

I actually don't disagree, but I thought I'd better make sure my snarky reply was in blue text so you knew I was just being a goof..

Yup, i am aware of the blue colour

I think there's actually an important difference between the difficulty of stuff like Dark Souls and some of the older NES hard games: while some of the NES hard games had quick responses on inputs, many NES games had either input delay or character animation delays and other input issues that contributed to their challenge, and that's on top of already abstruse designs for levels and mechanics.

I think the difference is that modern games are hard in a sense you can get better at it with practice. "retro" difficulty was built around frustration. Modern games let you try again, "retro" games made you suffer through repeating the whole processes again just to make an attempt...just one more time.

The worst of all difficulties is when there is only way to get thing done. I faced this in RTS game Pharaoh. You had to build a lush neighbourhood to move to the next level. I spent hours and my eyes turned red and no matter how luxurious it gets it never meets standard. After research I found out that you have to meet minimum requirement - THAT THEY DO NOT TELL YOU ABOUT - like at least 3 temples, 5 markets ,and 2 palaces. 1 market less and it does work even if you build a thousand palaces. This is also similar to the frustration with point-n-click adventure where the puzzle solution is completely ridiculous .

Another difficulty I hate is where you are left not knowing what to do next lost in a huge world, back tracking, or lost in a confusing maze without a guide or map.

[RCBH928]

I'm too lazy to go back and read this current line of talk from the start, but to chime in anyway...

8 and 16 bit games can be hard, and we know it was on purpose for various reasons. But they are intuitive on how to play, and what you should be doing. Dark Souls, for me, is hard in a way that I'm not quite sure what I'm suppose to be doing, and if what I'm currently doing is correct. Perhaps that's how the game is suppose to be. But to me, the 8 and 16 bit games are easier in this regard.

"retro" style was easy pick up/hard to master. This a main reason I refrain from playing modern games. I know I will be spending 2-3 hour figuring everything out even resorting to reading the manual. Man I just want to have fun, not study a new topic.

While a tutorial is a nice solution, best approach I have seen where you get to play immediately and as you progress they teach you new tactics and abilities. Play time and tutorial combined.

[Ziggy]

"retro" style was easy pick up/hard to master. This a main reason I refrain from playing modern games. I know I will be spending 2-3 hour figuring everything out even resorting to reading the manual. Man I just want to have fun, not study a new topic.

While a tutorial is a nice solution, best approach I have seen where you get to play immediately and as you progress they teach you new tactics and abilities. Play time and tutorial combined.

Yep, I feel the same way.

[marurun]

Mod note: Though not explicitly listed in site rules, please reserve red text for mod warnings.

I didn't know there was a mod warning colour.

It's sort of gray-area "official". You didn't get a warning or anything. I just wanted to make sure red text didn't get repurposed. Red text stands out and makes an impact, so it's good to keep in the back pocket for when you really need to grab someone's attention. May I suggest green or purple for when you want to "Get real" about something?

I think re: difficulty we also need to keep in mind that different people respond differently to difficulty. Anything that demands super-tight reflexes is always going to be a hard barrier for me, but confusion or memorization I can eventually work my way through.