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dsheinem wrote:

Xeogred wrote:Star Wars has no future after all this.

What planet do you live on? The Last Jedi has just about passed $1b at the Box Office and is likely on track to become the all time highest grossing film in the series, if not of all time (https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmende ... ca63bc77e2). You sound like a confused old codger.

It's not exactly like his old stuff thus it is a failure. Also, the flaws and plot holes in this movie are inexcusable while the flaws and plot holes in the old movies are part of their charm.

dsheinem wrote:

Xeogred wrote:Star Wars has no future after all this.

You sound like a confused old codger.

I know. How dare he. That's your job.

MrPopo wrote:It's not exactly like his old stuff thus it is a failure. Also, the flaws and plot holes in this movie are inexcusable while the flaws and plot holes in the old movies are part of their charm.

Flaws tend to be more glaring when you don't like the "good" parts. I can pick the film apart too but ultimately all that matters to me is am I connecting with the characters and their journey and I'm simply not.

Xeogred wrote: I've argued around about it and have yet to see good counters to my points. People love "Reylo" and I guess that's all they need.

This is very dismissive and borderline insulting. What counters? The series has been full of holes and inconsistencies since the beginning, so “factual” or “rational” arguments are pointless. And when it comes down to whether people connected to the characters, their relationships, and the situations they found themselves in, that’s so totally opinion that there is no counter possible for those views.

I enjoyed the movie greatly and found it very consistent with my own internal vision of the series. I really felt drawn in by the storytelling and the characters. You clearly did not. While discussions of why we differ can be fun and informative, there isn’t a “right” position and a “wrong” position. And so the reasons ultimately don’t matter. This is the canonical Star Wars as created by the owners of the property. It is what it is.

Just to generate discussion, here is a ranking of the Star Wars films:

The Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
The Last Jedi
Rogue One
The Force Awakens
Revenge of the Sith
Return of the Jedi
The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones

I have yet to see The Clone Wars, but as much as my children have been into the show recently, I suspect a viewing is in my near future. Also, because we aren’t allowed to like different things and hold different, equally valid opinions, this list is objectively correct.

Spoilers:

Do you find Kylo who constantly loses and the now joker Hux to be intimating? They are the face of the evil First Order.
- I can't take that seriously. Vader was constantly winning and destroying everyone in Episode 4-5. He was a monster that was something to be feared and reason to root for Luke and the Rebels.

What happened to the expansive scope and war? What happened to the scale of sci-fi and Star Wars here?
- This entire movie was a two hour plus awkward standstill with two ships in space and the resistance ran out of gas. The scale of this movie is minuscule compared to all the others. We got Luke in New Zealand and some casino planet from Casino Royale. This is the scope of Rian's imagination and world building.

What did Rey learn in Episode 8?
- Nothing from what I saw. In a day or two of ruining some alien huts, just magically beats down an old Jedi Master in a series with tons of old badass men, then force lifts boulders at the end like nothing. Luke and even Anakin's arcs were far more convincing and believable. Luke still couldn't even get his ship out of the swamp training with Yoda for weeks, then at Yoda's disapproval he leaves to confront Vader only to lose... even a hand, a physical loss. On top of seeing the burned corpses of his aunt and uncle, then Obi-wan's sacrifice. So many things to fight for. Meanwhile Rey looks a little flustered seeing a shirtless Kylo when he just killed you know who days ago in TFA right in front of her.

What did Finn and Rose's arc accomplish?
- Nothing. They just kept losing. If Poe was told the plan from the start they never would have had to go out and do all that. Save the animals but leave the child slaves. This takes up like half the movie. Also didn't Rey and Finn have good chemistry? But nah here's Rose jumping in the middle. I also laugh everytime Poe gets super excited to see anyone, when they barely have any on screen time together whatsoever for some real development we actually get to see... why should I care.

What are you looking forward to in Episode 9? Give specifics.
- I've got nothing.

Maybe I'll think of others if I care.

prfsnl_gmr - Clone Wars is top notch after the first season. Ahsoka is way better than Rey. About to start up season 3 myself. It's great watching good Star Wars again.

prfsnl_gmr wrote:I have yet to see The Clone Wars, but as much as my children have been into the show recently, I suspect a viewing is in my near future.

Clone Wars starts slow and the movie it premiered with is pretty bad but once it finds its footing things get progressively better and the later seasons are fantastic.

Rebels is similar in that season 1 is uneven but after that things get better and better.

My ideal Star Wars going forward would be with the creator of those series, Dave Filoni, as the person steering the creative direction of Star Wars. He should at least be in some kind of consulting role. I think he's got a great handle on blending the old and new.

Show me on this doll where the bad movie touched you.

A reply to Xeogred's post...

Xeogred wrote:What happened to the expansive scope and war? What happened to the scale of sci-fi and Star Wars here?
- This entire movie was a two hour plus awkward standstill with two ships in space and the resistance ran out of gas. The scale of this movie is minuscule compared to all the others. We got Luke in New Zealand and some casino planet from Casino Royale. This is the scope of Rian's imagination and world building.

So the remnants of the rebels flee from a planet under siege, there's a big chase in space, and some time spent on a nice looking but ultimately hostile area while the force sensitive character undergoes training on a backwater.

Did I describe 8 or 5?

What did Rey learn in Episode 8?
- Nothing from what I saw. In a day or two of ruining some alien huts, just magically beats down an old Jedi Master in a series with tons of old badass men, then force lifts boulders at the end like nothing. Luke and even Anakin's arcs were far more convincing and believable. Luke still couldn't even get his ship out of the swamp training with Yoda for weeks, then at Yoda's disapproval he leaves to confront Vader only to lose... even a hand, a physical loss. On top of seeing the burned corpses of his aunt and uncle, then Obi-wan's sacrifice. So many things to fight for. Meanwhile Rey looks a little flustered seeing a shirtless Kylo when he just killed you know who days ago in TFA right in front of her.

It's almost like Rey is on a completely different journey than Luke was on. Rey's journey is about going from nothing to something, coming into herself. She's a frighteningly powerful force user who is starting to grasp what that means and what her life path might be.

What did Finn and Rose's arc accomplish?
- Nothing. They just kept losing. If Poe was told the plan from the start they never would have had to go out and do all that. Save the animals but leave the child slaves. This takes up like half the movie. Also didn't Rey and Finn have good chemistry? But nah here's Rose jumping in the middle. I also laugh everytime Poe gets super excited to see anyone, when they barely have any on screen time together whatsoever for some real development we actually get to see... why should I care.

Poe was told the plan; he's the one who helped them execute it with some of the other rebels under the nose of the Admiral. If Poe was told how the entire thing would throw down? Then yeah, he wouldn't have bothered, but there's a long list of movie plots that would have been avoided if the characters knew what sorts of obstacles they'd encounter. The point of their arc was twofold:

1. To fail. It was tied in with Poe's arc of coming to grasp with the idea that you can't win them all, that you have to cut your losses sometimes.
2. To grow Finn's character more. At the start of TFA Finn shits himself and boogies out to save his own neck. Over the course of the movie he learns the value of friendship and gets his ass kicked trying to save Rey. But it isn't until this arc that Finn is willing to take up something bigger than himself and his own little bubble. Look at the start; he's about to desert in order to help Rey, which is consistent with TFA. It's only through the events of the movie that he goes from someone just trying to survive with his friends into a true resistance member; someone willing to lay down his life for a cause and for people he doesn't know.