Publishers and their used games gripes.

[MrPopo]

This has been successful for them because too many people are unwilling to accept that sometimes you just have to say "I guess I can't get this because I don't have the money".

In which case none of the publishers would see a penny, rival or otherwise. I guess that is where we can't come to agreement. I think that gamestop is providing a service to the people who don't want to say "I don't have the money so I can't get it." It's a service that pawn shops used to offer a lot more prolifically than they do now, at least in my area. If anyone should be upset about it then they should be the ones.

I can agree with you on this. The problem is that Gamestop heavily encourages all your dollars to flow through their used game system. With the Edge card you get more money for selling them games and get a discount on the used inventory. So rather than trading in an old game to buy a new game many people instead just buy a used game (since it's cheaper). Many of the games on the shelves have been through 3+ owners. It's a fantastic business model for Gamestop, but it does give publishers the shaft.

And if the publishers make money directly or indirectly a second or third time from a product they have already been paid for then they should shut up and be happy about it.

The problem is they can't quantify if they're making more money because of the used game market (by facilitating additional purchases) as compared to the number of games that are bought used rather than new. It's the same as with piracy; we all know that you can't simply say every download is a lost sale. A quick and dirty calculation might be to count 50% of the downloads as a lost sale, and that'll still be very off. The calculation is even worse for the used game market.

I think we've all agreed that including in free stuff with the purchase, like ME2's DLC, is a good way to encourage people to buy new, and is better in principle than an online pass that hurts used. What I'm arguing is that publishers aren't evil villians for wanting to protect their bottom line and combat a legitimate problem for them.

[jp1]

The problem is they can't quantify if they're making more money because of the used game market (by facilitating additional purchases) as compared to the number of games that are bought used rather than new. It's the same as with piracy; we all know that you can't simply say every download is a lost sale. A quick and dirty calculation might be to count 50% of the downloads as a lost sale, and that'll still be very off. The calculation is even worse for the used game market.

I can understand that. This leads to another problem though. If they can't quantify if they are making money or how much of it they are making then they shouldn't be making statements of "fact" about how it is just as bad as piracy or how they "don't make anything from used sales". They should just openly say that they haven't figured out the used market and how it affects their bottom line and they want to look for some options to try and ensure that it doesn't hurt them financially. The general attitude toward these people who purchase used games is uncalled for.

I know the penny arcade strip was just for comedy but did you notice how they portrayed the guy who was purchasing the used games? As if suddenly everyone who purchases new is a refined and elegant person and everyone who purchases used is a trashy idiot.

[SpaceBooger]

-Metroid: Other M
-Batman: Brave and the Bold
-Kirby: Epic Yarn
-Donkey Kong Country Returns

Yeah, but look how long we have waited for this many quality Wii games... it's been what four years?

Anyway, I can see both sides of this argument.
I agree that profit wise there is no difference to a publisher if someone buys used or pirates. I guess you can take the "piracy" stance and say - If I buy it used and like it I'll probably spend the money latter (on the sequel.)

I know its easy to blame gamestop and lecture people on finances (how to or not to spend their money right,) but in the end I think blame can be put on both parties.

Closing GameStop alone wont help the publishers, unless they stop publishing (what did MrPopo call it?) GenericFPS4. I think the fact that there are so many GenericFPS, GenericMotion Control Game, GenericRPG, etc people buy used. People wouldn't be trading in Madden 09/10 for the 2011 version if EA sold downloadable rosters each year while releasing a new game every 3 years or so. To me GameStop is just a brick and mortar Gamefly, or rental store - the longer I keep the game the more it costs me in trade-in value - and a renal store also hurts the publisher's profit.

To be one-sided on this argument is like walking a fine line, blame/support for either side needs to be made carefully... so maybe the whole gaming retail system needs to be blown up and started over - ala a Revolution.

*Edit- Someone mentioned bonuses for buying. Nintendo does that with the Club Nintendo, but that will not stop me from trading for Super Mario Galaxy 2, or buying it cheap new or used.
The only game I have gone out of my way to buy new recently was preordering Metroid Other M because I want to play that a.s.a.p. not because of the 30 bonus club nintendo points.

[ZeroAX]

Just make trophies and achievements exclusive to new buyers. The hardcore used games sales are as good as dead.

[AppleQueso]

I know the penny arcade strip was just for comedy but did you notice how they portrayed the guy who was purchasing the used games? As if suddenly everyone who purchases new is a refined and elegant person and everyone who purchases used is a trashy idiot.

That was the point though, it was portraying the views of game publishers as irrational and unrealistic.

[MrPopo]

I know the penny arcade strip was just for comedy but did you notice how they portrayed the guy who was purchasing the used games? As if suddenly everyone who purchases new is a refined and elegant person and everyone who purchases used is a trashy idiot.

So to put some context on that fellow, he already existed as the kind of Gamestop customer who'd buy the 50 Cent game. Those kinds of people make up a good chunk of the audience Gamestop targets.

Just make trophies and achievements exclusive to new buyers. The hardcore used games sales are as good as dead.

I really wish this wasn't so very very true.

[ZeroAX]

Just make trophies and achievements exclusive to new buyers. The hardcore used games sales are as good as dead.

I really wish this wasn't so very very true.

would you mind if that happened? I've only bothered collecting the trophies on 2 games I've owned, and those I've bought brand new and never plan on trading them (which means I only do it for the games I love).

But many people hunt them like crazy, so I think this would be a good idea. People can't really complain, it is a totally unnecessary extra feature and it's not exactly part of the core game experience. But would be a nice extra for new game buyers.

[MrPopo]

Just make trophies and achievements exclusive to new buyers. The hardcore used games sales are as good as dead.

I really wish this wasn't so very very true.

would you mind if that happened? I've only bothered collecting the trophies on 2 games I've owned, and those I've bought brand new and never plan on trading them (which means I only do it for the games I love).

But many people hunt them like crazy, so I think this would be a good idea. People can't really complain, it is a totally unnecessary extra feature and it's not exactly part of the core game experience. But would be a nice extra for new game buyers.

I go for achievements when I get something for them, like TF2 and the unlocks, or Starcraft 2 and the portraits (and even then, just for the portraits I want). So I'd be all for this. It just depresses me that it would do a pretty good job, or at least start another massive controversy.

[ZeroAX]

I go for achievements when I get something for them, like TF2 and the unlocks, or Starcraft 2 and the portraits (and even then, just for the portraits I want). So I'd be all for this. It just depresses me that it would do a pretty good job, or at least start another massive controversy.

Actually that is one of my main gripes about achievements. That they don't unlock shit.


In the old days you'd beat the game, and if you got 100% you'd get secret levels or new characters or new costumes.

This gen, developers give you a medal to add to your e-dick, most gamers are happy with that, and instead we have to buy the new levels costumes characters ect. ect.

[AppleQueso]

I don't get achievements at all. Never did see the point.