What does the term "shooter" mean to you at first glance?

[Nemoide]

It depends on who's saying it. If *I* think of the word "shooter" or if someone into retro games uses the term, my brain jumps to 2D shmup, so that's how I answered.

However if someone I don't know so well or who I know plays mostly modern games, I'll think FPS or maybe third-person shooter.

[Exhuminator]

Although, I do take into account the company of people who are talking. On here or with other retro enthusiasts: Shooter = shmup
Other people : Shooter = FPS

The problem is that concept implies that FPS type shooters can not be retro, or that the genre itself is not old enough to qualify. But in reality there are FPS games that are over 20 or even 30 years old. So in that regard I do not think shmups are inherently more "retro" than FPS, or that FPS games cannot be retro shooters.

Seriously, if you had asked me in 1994 what's the best shooter I'd played lately, I would have answered Dark Forces or Heretic without hesitation. The point there being that I am as old, or maybe even older than quite a few folks in this community. So the "company of people talking" argument doesn't hold water in my opinion.

[irixith]

Genre: Shooter: A game in which the player must engage in combat with a large number of enemies whilst dodging their attacks. The primary weapons carried and used are (although they are not limited to) guns.

Subgenre: First Person Shooter: A shooter where the perspective is from the eyes (or equivalent) of the player. (i.e. The player only sees their hands/weaponry on screen.)

Subgenre: Third Person Shooter: A shooter where the perspective is over the shoulder (or equivalent) of the player. (i.e. The player sees their whole character on screen.)

Subgenre: Shoot 'em Up: A shooter where the perspective is either top-down or horizontal scrolling and dodging attack patterns is integral to the game play.

When I was younger (i.e. before the Wolfenstein & Doom era), Shooter generically would have meant shoot 'em up...but language evolves over time. The rise of the first person shooter has made it more prevalent than the shoot 'em up, and hence the definition shifts.

[foxhound1022]

Like iririth just stated, the definition has shifted since FPS games have become more and more popular.

Thus, being as if someone who I know does not play retro games says "shooter" then I think FPS. If someone on here says "shooter" then I think shmup.

I understand that FPS's have been around for quite some time, but whether or not the genre is considered retro is not what you were asking. I was giving my opinion on how the word shooter equates to different conversations with different people.

[MrPopo]

Although, I do take into account the company of people who are talking. On here or with other retro enthusiasts: Shooter = shmup
Other people : Shooter = FPS

The problem is that concept implies that FPS type shooters can not be retro, or that the genre itself is not old enough to qualify. But in reality there are FPS games that are over 20 or even 30 years old. So in that regard I do not think shmups are inherently more "retro" than FPS, or that FPS games cannot be retro shooters.

Seriously, if you had asked me in 1994 what's the best shooter I'd played lately, I would have answered Dark Forces or Heretic without hesitation. The point there being that I am as old, or maybe even older than quite a few folks in this community. So the "company of people talking" argument doesn't hold water in my opinion.

It's not that they don't both have roots in retro games, it's that FPS's are a mainstream genre, while shmups are a niche genre, which wasn't the case 20 years ago. And the shmup roots are much older than the FPS roots, so they are still more retro.

[Ack]

It's not that they don't both have roots in retro games, it's that FPS's are a mainstream genre, while shmups are a niche genre, which wasn't the case 20 years ago. And the shmup roots are much older than the FPS roots, so they are still more retro.

Yeah, they've flipped places since the release of Doom. But really, the shmup could be considered the oldest genre in video games, since Computer Space is the oldest arcade game and Space War is one of the first computer games, not counting things programmed on oscilloscopes(which would be sports or puzzle games).

[Exhuminator]

I was giving my opinion on how the word shooter equates to different conversations with different people.

I value your opinion and appreciate you giving it.

What I do not understand is how someone in this day and age could not consider a game like Wolfenstein 3D to be old, retro, classic, whatever. It's as if when they were much younger, FPS games were a "new thing" and the genre stuck in their minds forever as being such. It's strange to me. But it's a subjective matter completely, I admit that.

It's not that they don't both have roots in retro games, it's that FPS's are a mainstream genre, while shmups are a niche genre, which wasn't the case 20 years ago.

All the same, brand new shmups are still being made today. Niche or not, the genre continues to proliferate. In that regard I can not see the genre as being more retro than FPS. Mainstream appreciation does not equate to chronological perception in my opinion.

[foxhound1022]

I wasn't aware that anyone was disputing the fact that FPS games can't be retro, unless I missed something.

[Exhuminator]

Someone in a different thread alluded to this possibility, I didn't mean you did if I came off that way.

[foxhound1022]

No problem. I was just wondering if I was implying something I wasn't aware of.