Interesting, somewhat brief retrospective on Final Fantasy 7

[fastbilly1]

All those examples Ack and not one mention of the Mario RPG franchise. For shame. Mario RPG is one of the JRPGs I judge all others against. It brought a full package to the table with a good story, excellent soundtrack, the right amount of humor, and an interesting combat system (at the time of release it was the only one like it [in the US atleast]). Now Mario RPG is not perfect, but no game is.

[graffix_13]

But tell me, where do you disagree with me?

I disagree that there isn't anything interesting to be had with the combat. But I'm the type who likes to theorycraft and figure out how to best create characters who can steamroll everything in their path. So while the individual battles might not be interesting, the path I take to get my party in a state that the battles are uninteresting is interesting.

I agree. This is what *I* find fun. And what defines "fun" for someone is subjective.

I will spend hours just grinding away xp and getting about 10-20 levels above the enemies I'm currently fighting just to wipe the floor with them (I used to play Everquest waaayy back in the day, so I've come to enjoy (?) grinding xp). This is the way I get the most enjoyment out of RPG combat. I avoid RPG's that have scaling enemy levels, because what fun is it to get owned by the same beetle that killed you at level 1 at level 50?

I don't play a lot of RPG's nowadays, mainly because they are a huge timesink. A lot of that is due to the *way* I play them, but again, for me that way is FUN.

[Xeogred]

I'm just gonna jump in and respond to the article posted.

I think he's overblowing it a chunk. There were FMV's before, on the PC sure. But the N64 definitely didn't really have the capability to run them. I'm positive you can find dozens upon dozens of other PSX games that also just have CGI screencaps for captures on the box art. I was a kid so I certainly wasn't really thinking much into any of this at all at the time, but CGI cutscenes, far more frequent use of pre-rendered backdrops, and CD level music, were probably some of the biggest things that made the Playstation stand out on its own against the N64 to me back then. I was totally a N64 kid too, but was always amazed by some of these things when I'd watch friends show me their PSX games or something. FFVII, MGS, and RE1-2 are a few that really stand out to me. Blew me away watching my friend show me these games and it wasn't until years later that I finally got a PS2 myself and could go back and play PSX stuff, but images and memories of these games never left me in between all that time. A fair bit due to the CGI cutscenes and such? Perhaps.

As a mostly console exclusive gamer, it was a big deal. Mario 64 was a big deal. The style and mechanic transitions from FFVI to FFVII, are a big deal. There has been no grand jump in gaming history that matches the massive leap from 2D to 3D. Developers had to practically start from the ground up and redefine everything. Love it or hate it, but FFVII was there at that time and in a way most definitely deserves some of the credit that it gets.

No, it's not my favorite FF nor is it even close JRPG wise. But it's a favorite in general and one I've replayed several times, I can nitpick so many flaws about the narrative and characters, I originally laughed when Aeris died as a kid (because I figured that'd mean more time for Tifa), and yeah it's overhyped, just as OoT is which is still one of my all time favorite games regardless. I'd say the same for some anime/shows out there, I try not to let overly negative or positive feedback alter my own perception.

So I don't know if that fits at all or is what anyone here, or the article was getting at, but yeah. Considering its time, it was at the right place at the right time and I think it's hard to deny it that much.

But again I think he's easily overthinking the CGI approach. Just remember all we really had were magazines back then, so we just got some screenshots and stuff here and there. And maybe someone here can speak up, but I don't think there was a single time I saw a Playstation CGI cutscene, and was then "disappointed" to see what the real game looked like, but maybe I was just always able to understand and separate the two. Same when I looked at screenshots of games, I dunno, but I just somehow always knew the difference.

Those screens reeled us in, then we played the game, and never thought anything of it after cutscenes ended because we just kept playing and enjoyed it. lol?

Maybe a weird case of something that sits on the line between objective and subjective.

This is the nadir of the obsession with filmic storytelling. I adore Final Fantasy 7 when I'm waxing nostalgic, but feel murderous when considering its legacy. It's an exceptional production, a game born of extraordinary vision and deeply ingrained RPG talent, a near-faultless Trojan horse bearing all the seeds of Squaresoft's self-combustion. Even now, when suffering through Final Fantasy 13s linear, cutscene-heavy slodge, the dead hand lingers. Square Enix still believes Final Fantasy's defining qualities are narrative and non-interactive cutscenes. So does much of the series' fanbase to be fair, yet they're an albatross.

See I'm also not sure about this. I can't think of a better way to put it right now, but I've always kind of considered Final Fantasy to be the easier, more commercial JRPG series out there. Some of them are definitely some of my favorite games, but there's a fair chunk of other JRPG's out there that I think outdue them in many departments or just everything. Maybe some of the older guys here can comment on this, but was there ever a stronger emphasis on things outside of the "flare" for earlier FF games before FFVII?

I know plenty of exclusive Call of Duty guys out there that love Final Fantasy as well, but not to just slam on that, this is something I've seen since forever. FF has always been the "flashier" easy JRPG series that attracts masses and has arguably always had a bit more of a Western focus, than Dragon Quest or others.

Dunno if any of that makes sense, I'm really tired lol.

[ZeroAX]

I think Final Fantasy was trying to be a movie way before 7, but was the first game in the series which had the means to overdo it. If you remember a lot of games in the 90s tried to be movies, and JRPGs perhaps did it more than most (back then, cause today I think FF XIII tried to be more of a game (regardless of the endless corridor level design) and western developed ACIII and CoD games are obviously trying to be movies), cause of the nature of the genre (completely separating gameplay and storytelling).

I too think that it's a shitty policy on Square's part not to show any gameplay screenshots on the box. Even today on its official site you only see CGI screenshots of the game.



About the battle system thing I have to agree with General_Norris. I like steamrolling through the games, and last time I started FF7 I downloaded a hacked save file, so I can get to the interesting parts of the game fast. So basically, I found the core gameplay boring. Some systems I like more than others (FF6,8,12 and 13 had more interesting battle systems for me compared to the others), but unfortunately the series really suffers in strategic depth. Just compare the FF games with Pokemon for example, a much "simpler" JRPG and you can tell that the battle system is just a means to an end, and not supposed to be the core game experience.

[noiseredux]

in particular the death of Aeris,

dude spoilers!

kidding.

[ZeroAX]

in particular the death of Aeris,

dude spoilers!

kidding.

Don't you make fun of my opinions
http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... 44&t=42538

[noiseredux]

Don't you make fun of my opinions
http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... 44&t=42538

I'm not, I'm being a baby after Phantasy Star II was spoiled for me in Ack's RPG Progress thread and I caused a scene.

[Valkyrie-Favor]

I can't blame you, man.

Nei was close to my heart.

[Xeogred]

Some systems I like more than others (...8... had more interesting battle systems for me compared to the others), but unfortunately the series really suffers in strategic depth.

Holy hotdogs! Cannot disagree with this enough, haha. FFVII is one I've replayed several times with ease, but FFVIII is one I've failed to try and completely replay 2-3 times now.

I just get way too OCD about the drawing and Junctions were pretty annoying, I remember a bit clearly from my last replay. Every time the party switched up or you went back to Laguna, if the Junctions didn't transfer right you just had to straight up set everything up again. That got so annoying. I'm pretty sure by leveling any bit extra in this one too, you end up making the game harder with enemies unlocking higher magic and stuff. People who don't care about maxing out the magic cards like I do and just run through the game seem to do it effortlessly lol.

I still think it has one of the best OST's in the series, city/town theme wise, and just had a really cool vibe. Definitely things I like about the game, but yeah I should probably accept I'll never be able to put up with it again. At least I 100%'d it back in the day, lol. I was so powerful, Junction'd right, my characters absorbed 100% of every element in the game and stuff. But in FFVI after a gross amount of dino slaying, I could probably have run through Kefka's tower with one character. Then in FFVII... don't even get me started on how literally invincible you can become with the right Materia setups.

Easiest JRPG's ever.

[Erik_Twice]

I agree, Ack, there's no particular reason why a JRPG can't have an interesting combat system and relevant enemies, which is why it saddens me that they normally don't.

In fact, not much is needed to "improve" these games and through house-roles you can make otherwise dull games much more interesting.

So while the individual battles might not be interesting, the path I take to get my party in a state that the battles are uninteresting is interesting.

This is exactly an issue I have, the player has an incentive to make a big part of the game irrelevant.

Rather, I feel games should be designed in such a way that the player has an incentive to act in a way that the game becomes more and more interesting instead of getting worse.