How Bad Is PC Piracy Really?

[Hatta]

I find very hypocrytal to complain about customer rights when you don't even respect the right to property. Hell if you pirate you don't respect the most basic worker right: The right to own your own work.

Copyright is not a property right. Property is inherently rivalrous, information is not. What the content industry wants is by far above and beyond property rights. They don't just want the right to own their own work. But they want the right to sell it AND continue to own it. Quite literally eating their cake and having it still.

Even without copyright, every artist would have their fundamental property rights respected. That is, if you make something you can sell it to someone else. At which point it becomes their property, and they can do whatever they want with it.

[Erik_Twice]

Copyright is not a property right.

I'm no lawyer, so the exact wording may be off. I think the point still stands, tough.

I agree that the "I'm not actually selling when I sell" mentality of certain publishers is dangerous,.

Even without copyright, every artist would have their fundamental property rights respected. That is, if you make something you can sell it to someone else. At which point it becomes their property, and they can do whatever they want with it.

Indeed.

However note that selling a copy of the game isn't the same thing as selling the rights of distribution of the game. (Added for redundancy and consistency with the posts where I discuss used games and the like).

[Hatta]

However note that selling a copy of the game isn't the same thing as selling the rights of distribution of the game.

That's kind of my point. The content industry wants protections above and beyond natural property rights. I'm not aware of any theory of natural rights that includes anything resembling copyright. I flatly deny that such rights exist, and any laws that attempt to establish such rights by trampling on our actual rights to our physical property are oppressive. Copyright was created simply as an expedient, to promote the arts, but it's been counterproductive for a long time, like all government protectionism ends up.

[Zing]

It would be interesting to observe a society similar to ours but with no concept of copyright. You write a book, show it to your friends, and the following year you notice it on store shelves, published by several different companies. Maybe the price of that book, or a CD, or a video, would be significantly lower, due both to the lack of royalty payments, and to society's general sense of value on creative works.

The usual argument is that without copyright, many of these creative works would never make it to the public space, or possibly never be created! It's hard to judge how it would really be with our current spaghetti mess of regulations and statutes.

[jfrost]

However note that selling a copy of the game isn't the same thing as selling the rights of distribution of the game.

That's kind of my point. The content industry wants protections above and beyond natural property rights. I'm not aware of any theory of natural rights that includes anything resembling copyright. I flatly deny that such rights exist, and any laws that attempt to establish such rights by trampling on our actual rights to our physical property are oppressive. Copyright was created simply as an expedient, to promote the arts, but it's been counterproductive for a long time, like all government protectionism ends up.

Do you believe in property as a natural right at all? (I do, but I didn't think you did, since I recall you saying that you were sort of a Bakuninist.)

[kylrbeez]

this is a double edge sword sort of speak because every game ive purchased so far this year that cost over 35 dollars were the worst games ever, duke nukem forever, bioshock 2 and the godawful "brink" and i refuse to download pirate games but godamit, it seems that im running out of options,lol. its terrible if you download them, but then again you feel worst when you end up with a steampile:(
but to the companies, they dont even have to package the games anymore, its available on steam, origin and other places, so my guess is the companies does make profit especially if its a game that has mutiplayer, everyone likes those.

[RXRob]

I know this reply will make me unpopular, but here goes.

I am a customer, an end user, an individual who has a budget with to pay rent, food, bills and luxury items in that order.

If I have the ability get something for free then I take it. I pick berries, grow vegetables, readily accept hand-me-downs, search Freecycle, and download films, music and games.

If I have to pay for something, then I get it as cheaply as I can. I visit auction rooms, charity shops, shopping search engines and discount stores.

In real terms this means that I buy legitimate copies of console games (excepting the Dreamcast) or play them on emulators. I generally pirate PC games, although last night I purchased Dues Ex: Human Revolution for £1 because it was on offer in a format that my PC can actually run well.

When I have the money to spare I nearly always blow it on console games or hardware. Sadly, I rarely have money to spare.

[kylrbeez]

I know this reply will make me unpopular, but here goes.

I am a customer, an end user, an individual who has a budget with to pay rent, food, bills and luxury items in that order.

If I have the ability get something for free then I take it. I pick berries, grow vegetables, readily accept hand-me-downs, search Freecycle, and download films, music and games.

If I have to pay for something, then I get it as cheaply as I can. I visit auction rooms, charity shops, shopping search engines and discount stores.

i agree and these sellers here at least appreciated the business. i rather stock up on some old school games and kick effin back.

[RXRob]

I know this reply will make me unpopular, but here goes.

I am a customer, an end user, an individual who has a budget with to pay rent, food, bills and luxury items in that order.

If I have the ability get something for free then I take it. I pick berries, grow vegetables, readily accept hand-me-downs, search Freecycle, and download films, music and games.

If I have to pay for something, then I get it as cheaply as I can. I visit auction rooms, charity shops, shopping search engines and discount stores.

i agree and these sellers here at least appreciated the business. i rather stock up on some old school games and kick effin back.

Plus it supports local charities and the local economy.

[isiolia]

If I have the ability get something for free then I take it. I pick berries, grow vegetables, readily accept hand-me-downs, search Freecycle, and download films, music and games.

Thing is, you're crossing a line with downloading films/games/music. There's nothing illegal about coupon clipping, gardening, or picking through second hand stores. Downloading media just because it's available through some channel or another isn't really the same.

Not saying plenty haven't done it at one time or another, just that rationalizing it as fine for you because of x, y, or z isn't accurate. Media is a luxury. If you don't have the money to pay for it, then you aren't entitled to use it. Simple as that. Anyone at any income level could use the money they spend on games (or movies, music, etc) on something else. Piracy does not equal thriftiness.