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Honestly i can see how one could think that the luck factor bears heavy on the game. although i feel this isn't entirely true to everyone. i think it depends on the player. there are some people that will pick up the power-up's for sure, but what about the select few that have learned the little tricks of the game in the dodging system? the game does not force you to pick of the power-up's, so lets just say that a player decides to do a run through without using power-up's. Of what I have seen...it is very possible. of couse im not saying people who don't want to take the time to learn the system should just give up and go home.

also I can't see the hate in this game unless you don't like beat'em up's (or you find the humor to be distasteful). again i feel that all the game is is probably the best attempt to make a good 3d beat'em up. and from the ground up, that's what this game is. how many good full 3D beatem'ups do we have? the genre is dying, so i found it really cool that someone finally pulled off an 'arguably' perfect example of how the genre can still last in this day. and it's certainly better than the some other attempts at a 3D beatem'up (save the yakuza series)

Disclaimer: There are few games I care for as passionately as God Hand, so I'm going to give more than my two cents here. Have a whole buck.

If you don't feel like reading all this, let me just direct you to the two best reviews of the game, which pretty much sum up my feelings but more better-like.

God Hand avant garde video review: http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=645
God Hand review: http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=541

Gamerforlife wrote:I didn't like it quite honestly despite the cult status it has among beat'em up fans. The controls are weird with that stupid right analog to duck thing. When you have to mash the analog stick repeatedly to dodge a whole series of moves it just feels awkward and annoying

This is all largely a matter of opinion, but I might just point out that by applying the dodge controls to the right stick, it allows you perform four different types of dodges simply by flicking your thumb. There IS no more efficient way to allow the player to dodge. Most games make you hold lock-on, the direction you want to move, and press jump. But God Hand is supposed to be a game of reflexes. One of the constant aims of this game is to test your split-second decision making.

People always compare it to Final Fight-style games, but it really isn't like one at all. It's probably closer to a tradtional 2D fighting game than anything.

Gamerforlife wrote:The game is too random(random health items, random demon appearances, etc.). The game is not a true test of skill since getting through an area successfully might ultimately come down to whether or not you were lucky enough to find health items or power ups and lucky enough to not spawn a demon encounter. When luck factors into a game, automatic fail. Particularly when it's one of those games that is trying to appeal to the hardcore gamer that wants a tough game that can legitimately challenge their skills. Your skills aren't being challenged in a game where at any given time you can get a lucky break(randomly spawned items/power ups)or get screwed up the ass(spawning a bunch of demon encounters). God Hand is fifty percent luck, fifty percent skill and that makes it a bad game

I would say the three major pillars of God Hand's gameplay are 1) crowd control 2) reflexive action and 3) split-second adaptation. (I know this is starting to sound like the most pretentious post ever, but I'm serious. Few, if any, actions games have EVER stimulated my brain as much as God Hand. The inner monologue of urgent strategizing that goes on in my head as I play this game is constant and frantic. It's maybe my favorite game of all time, or definitely one of them.)

The point I want to make here though is that while you're right that luck is a factor in God Hand, ultimately I think what the game wants to do is always throw a new set of conditions at you every time, and say, "Here's what you get this time. DEAL WITH IT." It wants to keep you on your toes consistently. The random item factor prevents you from "memorizing" the game on repeat playthroughs, and in theory, prevents you from ever relying on item drops because they're never something you can count on. I would say that that DOES make the game a true test of skill--at least as much as a game that has unrandomized item drops, if not more.

Gamerforlife wrote:The whole difficulty system of the game is stupid to. No matter what difficulty you set the game on, it can change it at any time during gameplay which completely robs the player of any kind of choice

Again, this is to keep you on your toes at all times. You're right that you can't "choose" to make the game easy (the harder modes are pretty damn hard no matter how much you "Level Down" within them, so I doubt anyone seeking a difficult experience is dissatisfied here). The game automatically scales the difficulty to match your skill, so you can't force it to stay "too easy", but that's hardly a flaw, if you ask me.

Gamerforlife wrote:The graphics are ugly too. God Hand is a game that wants to get by on its gimmicks(the weird humor, over the top moves, etc.)to hide the fact that it is badly designed

I think God Hand gets by on its play mechanics, and while there are cosmetically ugly things about the game (some bland backgrounds, lots of wall clipping, poison chihuahuas), I don't think that's an issue of "bad design", so much as lack of funding. And for a project like this, you can hardly expect a big budget. Also you gotta at least like the character models for Gene and what's-her-face.

fingersmaloy wrote:Disclaimer: There are few games I care for as passionately as God Hand, so I'm going to give more than my two cents here. Have a whole buck.

If you don't feel like reading all this, let me just direct you to the two best reviews of the game, which pretty much sum up my feelings but more better-like.

God Hand avant garde video review: http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=645
God Hand review: http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=541

Gamerforlife wrote:I didn't like it quite honestly despite the cult status it has among beat'em up fans. The controls are weird with that stupid right analog to duck thing. When you have to mash the analog stick repeatedly to dodge a whole series of moves it just feels awkward and annoying

This is all largely a matter of opinion, but I might just point out that by applying the dodge controls to the right stick, it allows you perform four different types of dodges simply by flicking your thumb. There IS no more efficient way to allow the player to dodge.

No, that's exactly why it doesn't work. Too many moves assigned to the stick, very easy for it to misread what you are trying to do. Especially when you're trying to push the stick up like ten times in a second to constantly duck the fast barrage of attacks that many enemies throw at you. It's too frantic and it becomes too easy to push the stick just slightly in another direction as your trying to repeatedly mash the stick upwards and have your character do something other than ducking. It's a flimsy, unreliable control scheme

fingersmaloy wrote:
People always compare it to Final Fight-style games, but it really isn't like one at all. It's probably closer to a tradtional 2D fighting game than anything.


I would say the three major pillars of God Hand's gameplay are 1) crowd control 2) reflexive action and 3) split-second adaptation.

The point I want to make here though is that while you're right that luck is a factor in God Hand, ultimately I think what the game wants to do is always throw a new set of conditions at you every time, and say, "Here's what you get this time. DEAL WITH IT." It wants to keep you on your toes consistently. The random item factor prevents you from "memorizing" the game on repeat playthroughs, and in theory, prevents you from ever relying on item drops because they're never something you can count on. I would say that that DOES make the game a true test of skill--at least as much as a game that has unrandomized item drops, if not more.

First of all, it's definitely a beat'em up. One man versus multiple enemies = beat'em up and all modern beat'em ups have fighting game elements, but God Hand doesn't do it well in my opinion. As for 1)crowd control 2)reflexive action 3)split-second adaptation, every beat'em up has those ingredients. That doesn't really make God Hand special in my eyes

If God Hand wants to be the ultimate test of skill as you said, then they might as well have removed ALL item pick ups, made demon appearances a certainty and set the difficulty at maximum at all times. The fact that all of this stuff is random just makes the game seem confused and uncertain of what it's trying to accomplish

fingersmaloy wrote: The game automatically scales the difficulty to match your skill.

No, it doesn't. One good juggle can bump up the difficulty to max. So just because someone got lucky and did one long air juggle loop the game suddenly assumes they are a God Hand Master Ninja? I can't count how many times that happened to me and suddenly the game went up to max difficulty and I was getting my ass completely handed to me. I wouldn't say that the game is an accurate judge of skill at all. It doesn't take much for the game to decide to bump up the difficulty to max. You get lucky and pull off one or two cool combos and now the game deems you to be a master and throws you into a difficulty mode you're not at all prepared for. As a recall, the system evaluates you based on how many times you hit an enemy without getting hit yourself. So long juggle on one enemy and the game thinks you're god. It's a stupid system

As far the graphics, I just mention it because it is just one more thing among others that the game does poorly. I don't buy the lack of budget thing though, given the amount of money and production value we saw in Okami and Viewtiful Joe. That being said, I wouldn't have a huge problem with God Hand if it just had poor graphics. It's my other complaints that really turned me off to the game. I don't think it sucks, but I just don't agree with many of the design decisions they made.

I think God Hand had all the potential to be the best 3d beat'em up of all time in the hands of smarter developers. There were good ideas here, but ultimately brought down by odd design choices. I look at a game like God Hand and think, "THIS is the sort of game that NEEDS a sequel, because there is all this wasted potential". That will never happen though as the game completely flopped, probably BECAUSE of all its flaws

Gamerforlife wrote:So just because someone got lucky and did one long air juggle loop the game suddenly assumes they are a God Hand Master Ninja? I can't count how many times that happened to me and suddenly the game went up to max difficulty and I was getting my ass completely handed to me. I wouldn't say that the game is an accurate judge of skill at all.

I really wasn't planning on replying to your criticisms, but I do want to touch on this because it is incorrect information. It takes a lot more than one air juggle to bump the difficulty level to "DIE". Almost an entire level's worth of work is required to reach DIE mode from level 1 or 2.

Also, the stick dodging mechanic is fine. Unless you're wiggling your thumb around like a madman, the control is very perceptive. You won't do a side dash unless you push the analog stick directly left or right.

Gamerforlife wrote:No, it doesn't. One good juggle can bump up the difficulty to max. So just because someone got lucky and did one long air juggle loop the game suddenly assumes they are a God Hand Master Ninja? I can't count how many times that happened to me and suddenly the game went up to max difficulty and I was getting my ass completely handed to me. I wouldn't say that the game is an accurate judge of skill at all. It doesn't take much for the game to decide to bump up the difficulty to max. You get lucky and pull off one or two cool combos and now the game deems you to be a master and throws you into a difficulty mode you're not at all prepared for.

That is a massive over-exaggeration. Plain and simple.

Gamerforlife wrote:No, that's exactly why it doesn't work. Too many moves assigned to the stick, very easy for it to misread what you are trying to do. Especially when you're trying to push the stick up like ten times in a second to constantly duck the fast barrage of attacks that many enemies throw at you. It's too frantic and it becomes too easy to push the stick just slightly in another direction as your trying to repeatedly mash the stick upwards and have your character do something other than ducking. It's a flimsy, unreliable control scheme

This case is a problem with the player not the game. I never once dodged a way I did not intend to.

brunoafh wrote:

Gamerforlife wrote:So just because someone got lucky and did one long air juggle loop the game suddenly assumes they are a God Hand Master Ninja? I can't count how many times that happened to me and suddenly the game went up to max difficulty and I was getting my ass completely handed to me. I wouldn't say that the game is an accurate judge of skill at all.

I really wasn't planning on replying to your criticisms, but I do want to touch on this because it is incorrect information. It takes a lot more than one air juggle to bump the difficulty level to "DIE". Almost an entire level's worth of work is required to reach DIE mode from level 1 or 2.

I call BS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2BYqrXP_ZU

Yeah, so if you're like me and enjoy juggle the shit out of enemies for fun, your level goes up to DIE in no time

Gamerforlife wrote:I call BS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2BYqrXP_ZU

Yeah, so if you're like me and enjoy juggle the shit out of enemies for fun, your level goes up to DIE in no time

Um... okay? A video of a player spamming a move on a cornered enemy while they are already in die mode? I fail to see your point...

Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. It's not BS. You can't just go into die mode by doing one air juggle. In fact, juggling has no effect on the difficulty increasing whatsoever anyway. The only things that matter are that you deal damage and avoid taking damage. It doesn't matter how you deal the damage. Whether or not the enemy is being juggled is irrelevant.

brunoafh wrote:

Gamerforlife wrote:I call BS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2BYqrXP_ZU

Yeah, so if you're like me and enjoy juggle the shit out of enemies for fun, your level goes up to DIE in no time

Um... okay? A video of a player spamming a move on a cornered enemy while they are already in die mode? I fail to see your point...

Quoted for truth.

And by the way, I challenge you to pull off a fucking infinite juggle without using a wall and while there are other enemies trying to attack you.

nightrnr wrote:Anyone know how this compares to Final Fight: Streetwise and Beat Down?

All 3 games were beat-em-ups made by Capcom around the same time and all 3 have been slammed by reviewers. Although, out of the 3, I hear from more fans of God Hand.

I just beat Streetwise and it's definitely not that great. I had fun with it, but I have pretty "low" standards. It's a bad game, but I finished it simply because I got so far. Story is awful, graphics were ok, combat is mediocre. It's just an amusing game to throw in and waste some time with. No real lasting value, and if you haven't played anything else it's not worth your time. I haven't spent enough time with Beat Down to make a decision but so far it's not particularly good. It does a really strange thing where it will switch up the way you fight between open street battles and one on one fights and it makes things awkward.

My favorite hand to hand beat em ups of this kind on ps2 are, by far, Urban Reign and God Hand and Yakuza. They all have the right amount of heft and friction to the combat and they feel good. Yakuza has the bonus of also being a really incredible over the top story and a really fleshed out believable world to explore. Urban Reign has it's problems, mostly with really unfair computer and and incomplete combos system I feel, but the brawling that is there feels amazing. Playing with a friend is even more fun. It has some good friction and the combat just feels really good. At least when the computer is not being irritatingly cheap.

God Hand I think was awesome because it scratches an itch that no one dares touch. It's hard as hell, and only gets harder the better you do. I liked God Hand because it forces you to make precise and calculated actions and always be aware of what's going on all around you despite not being able to see it. Everyone bitches about the things I loved about it, similarly with monster hunter. The game's content may be a little incomplete in terms of stoy, and enemies, but I honestly don't care when it comes to games like this. To me it made up for that by being ludicrous and quirky. It will only ever appeal to a very small group of people because it takes a lot of patience and effort to figure out. When that is applied, everything clicks, and it makes sense in no other way. It becomes rhythmic, tense, and gets the heart racing. The game-play is fucking golden to me.

Thank you very much (-_-)

I've been waiting patiently for some input and you've delivered even more than I was hoping for.

I love reading comparing/contrasting on similar games and or it's contemporaries. Been wondering about the 3 Capcom games for some years.

Anyways, I'll have to give God Hand a try some day. I'm pretty forgiving of games as well, so I'm sure I'd enjoy it. The way I figure, if you can take something for what it is (disregarding hype and expectation), you're rarely all that disappointed.

I do want to try Street wise some day too though, if only because I heard Cammy makes a cameo in it (although why a Cammy fan would play it just to beat her up, I'm not too sure).