How would you feel about a really controversial game decisio

[ZeroAX]

It just is that there is enough reality in the world with negative things like terrorism etc that I personally don't need to be in control of it or some other horror-themed game where I affect the consequences of the victims or something like that. Sure, it could be where you save people but then it would be like any other "save the XXX" game.
I felt bad enough at the end of MGS3. No spoilers, if you played it, you know. If you haven't played it, go now!
But back to the subject, if MGS3 was filled with stuff like that, I wouldn't have had much desire to continue playing (then again there wasn't a choice in MGS3).

Well, that is a matter of taste I guess. I still think you should wish games like these were made, even if you would never play them. Also terrorism is a pretty bad example, cause a lot of games involve us being terrorists, yet since it doesn't use that title, we don't pay any attention to it (GTA is a fine example. And I always thought that the way most games handle nukes is a bit of poor taste).

[J T]

SPOILER ALERT!



Heavy Rain gives you the choice to cut off your own finger to save a life in front of a camera.

I watched this online. It's really quite unnerving. I haven't played Heavy Rain, so I don't know how good that whole story is, but that scene was intense and I think it was largely intense because of the interactivity of it.

I like the idea of games hitting some moral grey area, but I don't really like the obvious choice between two highly violent alternative that much. I would like to see other areas of moral ambiguity with more subtlety.

Nevertheless, a "Sophie's Choice" moment for one of your party members in an RPG would be a gripping moment in the game, especially if you can't get everyone else in the party to agree that you made the right choice. It could be a major story bifurcation point that allows things to spin in different directions depending on what you decide in that one moment.

I think it would work best in an RPG because you would have to lose a vital member to your party, and you might piss off some of the others and lose them too. It would be a decision with real in-game consequences that effect not only the storyline, but the future gameplay as different party members are vital to how you succeed/fail in battles in a RPGs.

[Erik_Twice]

If it's well done and fits the game mechanics then great.

Easier said that done, specially since you are the one who decides. I don't trust anyone, much less whoever writes videogames plots to write a good story that leads to an interesting decision.

There's an unaovidable break between the world of the game and reality that will lead most of those decisions to failure since you can ignore the game world while a character that lives in that world can't.

[MrPopo]

Nevertheless, a "Sophie's Choice" moment for one of your party members in an RPG would be a gripping moment in the game, especially if you can't get everyone else in the party to agree that you made the right choice. It could be a major story bifurcation point that allows things to spin in different directions depending on what you decide in that one moment.

I think it would work best in an RPG because you would have to lose a vital member to your party, and you might piss off some of the others and lose them too. It would be a decision with real in-game consequences that effect not only the storyline, but the future gameplay as different party members are vital to how you succeed/fail in battles in a RPGs.

The first Mass Effect has a moment like this where you have to choose between one of your two original party members. When you initially make it you aren't being explictly told that only one will survive but it's easy to surmise.

[GSZX1337]

It doesn't sound fun. I play games to have fun. So, no thank you.

Depends on how you look at it.

I'm kind of surprised no one has said this yet, but that rape scenario you mentioned sounds really crappy.

Choice 1) Get raped without a fight and feel bad about it.
Choice 2) Fight back, get my ass beat, then probably get raped anyway.

Sounds fun.

I'm not sure if this appeals to what you want, but Indigo Prophecy/Fahrenheit has a scenario where there's a little boy drowning. You could either save him and risk getting caught by the cops, or you could let the kid drown and definitely escape the cops.

[Bradtemple87]

It doesn't sound fun. I play games to have fun. So, no thank you.

Depends on how you look at it.

I'm kind of surprised no one has said this yet, but that rape scenario you mentioned sounds really crappy.

Choice 1) Get raped without a fight and feel bad about it.
Choice 2) Fight back, get my ass beat, then probably get raped anyway.

Sounds fun.

I'm not sure if this appeals to what you want, but Indigo Prophecy/Fahrenheit has a scenario where there's a little boy drowning. You could either save him and risk getting caught by the cops, or you could let the kid drown and definitely escape the cops.

win win eh

[ZeroAX]

I'm kind of surprised no one has said this yet, but that rape scenario you mentioned sounds really crappy.

Choice 1) Get raped without a fight and feel bad about it.
Choice 2) Fight back, get my ass beat, then probably get raped anyway.

Sounds fun.

Don't you ever watch a movie that makes you think about life in a bad way, even though it is disturbing? I wouldn't call any drama "fun". They are thought provoking. Is it really that bad to ask the same of interactive entertainment?

Stop thinking of the medium as only "games". By that definition, how is GTA or any other game that takes murder lightly, better than my rape example? It's a really crappy scenario, where you kill a bunch of innocent people for "fun". (and on the rape example, after all those hentai games where women enjoy getting raped, don't you think men should be shown the more realistic side?)

All I'm asking is if you believe that the medium has artistic potential, at least in your book? In other words, if a company went and made a very artistic game, would it survive in the modern game market? Would it have your support? We are one of the few gaming forums that have a culture sub-forum so I thought we should use it more often.

EDIT
@ MrPopo.

Yeah but isn't one of them a love interest? Who chose to save the friend, instead of the love interest?

[MrPopo]

EDIT
@ MrPopo.

Yeah but isn't one of them a love interest? Who chose to save the friend, instead of the love interest?

Potential love interest. I slept with the alien instead.

[GSZX1337]

Don't you ever watch a movie that makes you think about life in a bad way, even though it is disturbing?

Yeah, but that's not the reason I go and watch a movie. If a movie poster or trailer just had the words: "Makes you think of life in a bad way." I wouldn't watch it.

I wouldn't call any drama "fun". They are thought provoking. Is it really that bad to ask the same of interactive entertainment?

We had a thread about this.

Fun:
providing entertainment, amusement, or enjoyment
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fun?show=2&t=1296517629

I can enjoy something like Schindler's List even though they're not bright and colorful like Commando. So yes, a drama can be fun.

Stop thinking of the medium as only "games".

Look at your title.

By that definition, how is GTA or any other game that takes murder lightly, better than my rape example?

Because GTA is fun. The game is pretty much a sandbox where you cause mayhem and chaos. Having a scenario where I can choose to get my ass beat or feel like shit isn't fun. The only way I can think of where that can be fun is a game like Alter Ego where you play a normal person and it's like a choose your own adventure book.

It's a really crappy scenario, where you kill a bunch of innocent people for "fun".

When I said it was crap, I was meaning it wasn't fun, stimulating, or informative. I understand that in real life, someone getting raped or someone committing drive-bys is shit.

(and on the rape example, after all those hentai games where women enjoy getting raped, don't you think men should be shown the more realistic side?)

So should I go to my little cousins who play Call of Duty and Left 4 Dead and make them look at rotten.com?

"You play a lot of violent video games, let me show you the realistic side of murder."

For what it's worth, Japan (where these rape games come from, obviously) is #54 in Rapes.
http://www.destructoid.com/japan-bans-r ... 3788.phtml

All I'm asking is if you believe that the medium has artistic potential, at least in your book?

Of course it has artistic potential. Look at Braid, Okami, the OddWorld series, and Machinarium.

In other words, if a company went and made a very artistic game, would it survive in the modern game market?

Sadly, probably not unless it was on Steam.

Would it have your support?

I'm not going to buy a game just because it's artsy. If it looks like something I'd enjoy and it doesn't have DRM (excluding Steam), I'd buy it.

[ZeroAX]

You know, my rape example was mostly about something that will affect the game's story, not a gameplay choice. I just gave an example, cause as I said, I believe it's only by touching controversial issues will games be respected as an art form. Disney could be making as many chicken little's as they like, but it was Wall-e which got people talking.

Also I don't know what rotten.com is exactly (looked at it for 2 secs and got bored), but as someone whose ancestor's lives were constantly ruined by wars (my great grandmother alone survived 4 wars in 20 years of her life) it really annoys me how modern kids take war lightly, as a game.

You hear the phrase "let's go to war" like they are talking about something fun or easy. That is why I respect documentaries that talk about the atrocities of war, and movies like Saving private Ryan (that was the one with all the brains and stuff during D-day right?) which show the ugly side of war. Fighting for your country is an honorable cause, just as long as you know what's really worth fighting for and why shallowing your pride for small stuff is a better tactic for the well being of your people.

So when "realistic war" games are the current craze, I think they lose all artistic merit cause of how unrealistic they really are, and how lightly the subject matter is taken (I think CoD 1 is supposed to be more realistic in this regard).


Also, they didn't ban rape games, they just made a law that prohibits naming them rape games.