SEGA Saturn questions and help with SEGA RAM carts?

[Hatta]

Yes, I'm in the "increase wear" camp here. I touch my cart slot as little as possible. Every time you insert the cart, the pins have to move a bit which in the long run will weaken them.

[Ziggy]

Yes, I'm in the "increase wear" camp here. I touch my cart slot as little as possible. Every time you insert the cart, the pins have to move a bit which in the long run will weaken them.

Wouldn't that just increase the wear, since your inserting and removing the cart all the time?

Keeping a cart in the slot will keep the pins pushed out, which isn't good. I can see how one would think that constantly removing/inserting the cart would wear the pins out faster, I use to think this too, but it isn't true. Yeah, yeah, when you bend metal enough times it breaks. But the pins that are the cart slot kinda work like a spring. They're not gonna break from inserting/removing carts once or twice a day. In fact, I would think the metal would wear faster from keeping a cart in (judging by the way the metal is bent, it's under stress when a cart is inserted).

Keeping a cart inserted all the time means the pins are being pushed out. Think about it this way. You pull on a spring and let go, it returns to normal. Pull on it and leave it like that for a year... think it'll return to normal? Same principle for the cart slot. Eventually the pins wont return to their "normal" position which means it's that much harder to make good contact with a cart.

This is why you shouldn't use the GameShark. The PCB is too thick and pushes the pins out too far, eventually they don't return to normal. Then you'll try and use a first party memory card or an PAR and it doesn't work.

[brendanraymond]

nah ziggy, that can't be right

its cyclic loading of a material that cause it to fail/damage.

lets look at the computer. you leave your graphics/sound ethernet card under loaded springs for practicaly the life of the machine. the caps and ICs die before the springs fail.

also cars/trucks/trains have springs for thier suspension, thats tons and tons of steel... and those springs rarely collaps, mainly duely to being made of spring steel... but my point being is that cyclic loads what wear a spring... a spring excerts a constant force and that doesn't change over time. springs can also age over time regardless of loading, due to anelastic behavior.

also if you leave your carts out, you are exposing the contacts to be corroded, so you need to clean them, causing them to wear each time you clean it and instert it into the slot again.

[AppleQueso]

Yeah I honestly can't see how leaving the AR in constantly is worse for the system than removing it all the time for no real reason.

[Ziggy]

You're not looking at it right, though. It's the worst cart slot EVER, it is prone to wearing out. And I offer you this: You constantly remove carts from any cart based system. Let's take a SNES for example, let's say it's 20 years old right now. 20 years of inserting/removing carts from the system and it still works fine.

The Saturn cart slot, on the other hand, just wears too easily. And I never said that the constant removal of carts isn't causing ANY wear, I just don't think that wear holds a candle to the wear of leaving the cart inserted 24/7. Also take into account that you're not inserting/removing the cart THAT many times. Honestly, how many times can you insert/remove it in one day? Once, twice? I don't think it's a problem, especially considering the even more 'cyclic loading' that a cart based system would get which doesn't seem to cause any problems.

But my main point is the GameShark, the PCB is definitely a little thicker and it's edge is not rounded either. It WILL wear out the Saturn's cart slot from just normal use.

[AppleQueso]

The Saturn cart slot, on the other hand, just wears too easily. And I never said that the constant removal of carts isn't causing ANY wear, I just don't think that wear holds a candle to the wear of leaving the cart inserted 24/7. Also take into account that you're not inserting/removing the cart THAT many times. Honestly, how many times can you insert/remove it in one day? Once, twice? I don't think it's a problem, especially considering the even more 'cyclic loading' that a cart based system would get which doesn't seem to cause any problems.

But if the AR does everything you need and you don't intend to ever use anything else in that slot, what harm can possibly come from leaving it in?

[Hatta]

I guess the real question is, what material are the pins made out of, and how much creep would it experience under the pressures it experiences with a cart inserted. I'd guess not very much. The pins are probably nickel plated copper, both of which have melting points greater than 1300K. Wikipedia gives a rule of thumb that creep starts to become noticeable at around 30% of their melting point. That would put it at 390K, or 117C before creep becomes a problem.

If they used a low melting point metal like zinc, then it might be a problem. But I don't think they'd do that. That would get hard to solder. Even then, I don't think the pressures involved are enough to make it an issue. Disclaimer: I am not a materials engineer.

[Ziggy]

But if the AR does everything you need and you don't intend to ever use anything else in that slot, what harm can possibly come from leaving it in?

I knew some one would suggest this. What can I say? Leave it in, apples and oranges. I can't justify myself leaving a cart in when my Saturn can easily go months at a time with out use. In my case, why bother leaving it in?

In my own personal experiences, and from what I've read online, the Saturn has the most finicky and fragile cart slot ever. I've left a GameShark in the slot for months at a time, as well as a Sega memory card for even longer periods of time. My Saturn's cart slot worked perfectly when I first got the system, now some times it can be a little finicky. So now I don't leave the cart in the system when not in use. Problems with my cart slot have not progressed, which leaves me to believe I'm doing the safest thing I can with it.

lets look at the computer. you leave your graphics/sound ethernet card under loaded springs for practicaly the life of the machine.

But let's not forget that they're designed to do just that, where as video game cart slots are designed with the consideration (hopefully) of the constant ejecting/inserting of carts.

also cars/trucks/trains have springs for thier suspension

I don't think that's a fiar comparison at all. I'm aware of the leaf suspension on trucks and whatnot. Not only is a completely different design, but now we're talking about completely different grades of metal.

also if you leave your carts out, you are exposing the contacts to be corroded

I think they could become corroded with or without the cart being there.

I guess the real question is, what material are the pins made out of

I'm no materials engineer either, but I always figured the problem was less to do with the material and more to do with the design. From what I gather, when the pins are pushed out (cart inserted) they have a tough time returning to their 'normal' position. This is why I think you should not leave a cart in 24/7.

But, whatever. Like I said, since I stopped leaving carts in I haven't noticed any more wear on my cart slot so I'll continue to remove the carts when not in use.