RPGs for the all growed ups!

[Intangir]

Planescape is a PC RPG and PC games don't get quite as much love around here as console games. I only had a Mac in the 80s and 90s so I only seriously played the games available for it. I was aware of the blockbuster hits for Windows, but I'm still playing catch up with many of the worthy games that I missed. If I can find Planescape, I'll definately play it seeing that it garnered such great reviews.

Thanks for the heads-up on the console bias around here, neohx_7. I just ran a few more forum searches to confirm that I truly am in bizarro world:

• NOT A SINGLE mention of System Shock 2 (1999). Zip, nada. According to the search function at least, this post right here is the first time someone's said "System Shock" on this forum.
• ONE mention of Deus Ex (2000).
• ONE mention of Thief--and only for Deadly Shadows. Nothing regarding Dark Project (1998), Thief Gold (1999), or Metal Age (2000).
• ONE mention of Anachronox (2001) (even racketboy, to his ultimate discredit, forgot to put this on his 10 Games that NEED a Sequel listing).
• And just a handful of Grim Fandango (1998) and Fallout (1997, 99) mentions sprinkled lugubriously throughout the forum.

It's actually kinda funny, really. Here I came to this site from some place or another and was so thrilled to find a retro-gaming site that wasn't too retro. When I saw the 1999 in the title slogan, I knew I had found paradise--finally a group of people who, like me, still swooning over what I consider PC gaming's finest years. Except they aren't. </sob>

I tried Planescape and the Fallouts recently, but I don't see how any human being could play a game so slow.

Hi Mozgus, believe it or not, I know precisely what you mean. I actually tried to play through Planescape: Torment once or twice and could never get very far into it without going off to play something else (usually I just got out of the mortuary, the first area, saved, quit, and never came back). I always attributed this to my general resentment of Western, D&D, Infinity-styled RPGs having grown up strictly on consoles up until a few years into the PlayStation era when I got my first real PC. But one fine and rainy day I wanted to either play a great game or read a great book. Planescape was my compromise and I finally pushed myself to get far enough into the game to get passed the event horizon. I believe this point came when I had a very long and interesting chat with Dak'kon (the first of many) in the bar. And then, just like that, in a stunning reversal, I couldn't not keep playing it.

That may or may not be true for you or anyone else, but between you and me, Planescape and Fallout are truly worth second and third tries to any self-respecting RPG player.

BTW, neohx_7, I picked up a copy of Planescape: Torment off of GoGamer as a Christmas present to a friend. It was about $25-30 shipped and comes bundled with Soulbringer (which you may or may not want to throw away). Nowadays, however, I see it's going for $50 there. Though Torment is one of the few games I'd dish out $100 for, you may not. And if this trend continues, Planescape might be a tough title to come by in years to follow. Just a FYI for you or anyone else planning to pick it up and play through it.

[alexkidd]

Surprised no one has mentioned Shen Mu and Shen Mu II. It does kind of transcend the RPG genre at times but at its core it is very much an RPG. The story is definitely for adults, if not a bit cliche (avenging your murdered father) but the overal realism gives this game a truly unique feeling. You'll need patience as the game moves at a snails pace, but it can be very rewarding.

I'm not a big PC gamer, but I'd be willing to bet that there's nothing like Shen Mu on PC, there certainly isn't anything else like it on a console.

[Mozgus]

I'm not a big PC gamer, but I'd be willing to bet that there's nothing like Shen Mu on PC, there certainly isn't anything else like it on a console.

Omikron comes to mind. And please call it "Shenmue".

[Zork]

I'm huge PC gamer although I actually rarely upgrade my PC. I'll agree with Int on how the 90s in general were golden for PC games, but in all honesty the 90s were good for gaming as a whole. My PC game collection is actually the largest out of all my stuff. I'd say the only real disadvantage PC gaming has other than upgrading a system to keep up with the Joneses is if you wanna play some old stuff you have very few options.

Either find a third party program to help you, and there are only two instances where this works out ok that I know of, ScummVM and DOSBox, and DOSBox is slow as hell unless you have a monster PC.

Or...you could keep really old systems around or buy some. The problem with this is how slow everything is going to go. I personally don't have a problem with this but I've always believed that over 90% of the world's population has some form of severe ADD or ADHD.

Instant gratification for the loss.

[Intangir]

I'd say the only real disadvantage PC gaming has other than upgrading a system to keep up with the Joneses is if you wanna play some old stuff you have very few options.

I agree with the perpetual upgrading; it's quite a chore to keep up with all the new hardware. On the other hand I'm a retro-gamer so, even though the bulk of my system is a few years old (AMD XP 3000+ & Radeon 9800XT), it's more than adequate to play the games I really like.

I haven't come across any old PC game I couldn't get running on my XP system, actually. Sometimes it requires a bit of finesse and a google search or two. Thief Gold, for instance, doesn't even install on XP by default. Luckily Thief, like many older games, have their own communities who put together nice FAQs to expedite the process of getting it running on today's systems. Other games like Oni have had their community step up to keep the game playable on future generations of hardware/software. A good enough community can make games even better with mods, unofficial patches, graphics updates, new content, etc. Well, I could go on and use more examples or even emulators with their own anti-aliasing, anisotropic filtering, 2xSaI and so on, but I think that may inadvertently derail the topic into some trivial argument over consoles and PCs.

ScummVM and DOSbox really have been good to me though, I must admit. The first two games I played this year were Day of the Tentacle and Sam and Max Hit the Road and, with ScummVM and some optional 2xSaI, they still look and play quite well today. I started playing Ultima VII earlier this month with DOSbox which was working ok, but I eventually switched over to Exult once I heard about it. The only other game I've needed to use DOSbox for--so far--is Gabriel Knight: Sins of our Fathers and it was working fine also. I think I heard there's a patch or something to get that to work in XP as well.

I digress. I can't say I've played Shenmue, but I did beat Omikron. I have to say I'm surprised there's another game similar to Omikron--that's a title I thought would be unique for ages to come. Now I'm curious to what extent Shenmue is similar. I might just have to loan a Dreamcast from a friend for that. If only he had a Saturn too.

[alexkidd]

I'm not a big PC gamer, but I'd be willing to bet that there's nothing like Shen Mu on PC, there certainly isn't anything else like it on a console.

Omikron comes to mind. And please call it "Shenmue".

Thanks spelling police, that makes things fun for everyone. I imported the sequel from europe, but I guess I'm not hard core because I don't remember how to spell the name years down the road.

Anyway, is Omikron really as deep as Shuenmoo? I played just a few hours of it on DC, and other than being a huge Bowie fan, I couldn't get into it and never went any further along.

[Mozgus]

Thanks spelling police, that makes things fun for everyone. I imported the sequel from europe, but I guess I'm not hard core because I don't remember how to spell the name years down the road.

Cry more.

[neohx_7]

Any other takes on the Shenmue name? I'm guessing that what the topic is now. How about Shamu? Do you know where any sailors hang out?

[ImportBoy]

You might want to consider trying out Indigo Prophecy (Farhenhiet in Europe). It was released on PC, Xbox, PS2, and Gamecube...so take your pick. It was developed by Quantic Dream, the same guys who did Omikron for the PC and Dreamcast.

Not quite an RPG - more Shenmue adventure like - but a very interesting and sometimes rather freaky game with many grown up and mature themes. Plays out like an interactive movie - numerous possible endings - and many choices to make during the game. It also has QTEs like Shenmue. Whats unique about it is that you play from two different perspectives - a guy who just committed a murder but doesn't know why - and the two cops who are investigating it.

I think there is a demo for the PC that has the first chapter for anyone thinking of giving it a try.

[jEckt]

i'm not if there is necessarily a rpg that is a literary masterpiece...

the most 'mature rpg' i could think of is mmorpg (just due to fact of social interaction and etiquette)
i'm not sure if shenmue makes the cut either (is it an rpg?), it has a good storyline... but it feels like an 80's Hong Kong flick (without the corniness... besides the english voice acting 'where can I find some sailors?')

honestly, many will disagree, but the most 'mature' rpg (well action rpg) is any of Zelda series (except for phillips cd.. or whatever that stuff was)
I think its the simplicity of the game's storyline makes the game more 'mature' (no whining, no awkward sad scenes [well there are a few, but nothing to annoying], no force fed philosophies or ideas); the game concentrates on skill oriented game play (no grinding in these games) and the 'experience' you went through playing the game is all that matters when it comes down in the end.