Toyota (and Toyoda) are getting hanged!

[corn619]

Thanks for the heads up Jrecee. I'll have to watch for that.

[Jrecee]

I would much prefer a mechanical cable as well. In the story about the lady with the lexus, everything basically went down, so her brakes wouldn't work, her accelerator pedal didn't do anything, and she even said shifting into neutral didn't accomplish anything. If it's a physical cable that has broken, it's pretty likely that either the brakes or shifting into neutral will still be a way to stop the car. I don't like the idea of getting the red ring or blue screen of death in my car.

[CRTGAMER]

Thats funny you made this thread today. Just traded my Toyota in today! Picked up a real car, a 09 Dodge Challenger R/T. On my phone at work right now, but I'll post pics later. This car is everything I ever wanted in a automobile. That Hemi puts out the coolest sound ever.

The new "Retro" cars are nice and a move in the right direction. I don't consider those Factory Hot Rods "Real" cars. Doesn't represent a true hot rod compared to one that you rebuild and customize with your own hands.

Great blog about different rides right here:
Racketboy Post: http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... &sk=t&sd=a

Yeah, you may be right on that. But I have to consider safety for my family, reliability, MPGs and of course my enjoyment. "Real" hot rods can't offer this while my new Challenger can. This is going to be a almost daily driver for me. And how come you couldn't have just said something nice?

Sorry about that. Just sometimes see the Factory Retro cars at local car show with the owner acting as if he put it together. Same as the buyers at Mercum Auctions. The owners that I really can't figure out are when I see clean older classics trailered in! Still from what you say it is more sensible way to go. What the big 3 are doing is a good thing. Your car is a nice ride, just like the original Challengers and Chargers years later will be classics looked back on with a smile.

[CRTGAMER]

I would much prefer a mechanical cable as well. In the story about the lady with the lexus, everything basically went down, so her brakes wouldn't work, her accelerator pedal didn't do anything, and she even said shifting into neutral didn't accomplish anything. If it's a physical cable that has broken, it's pretty likely that either the brakes or shifting into neutral will still be a way to stop the car. I don't like the idea of getting the red ring or blue screen of death in my car.

That family that died in Southern Ca were killed in a Lexus loaner car. Maybe the driver was not familiar that engine on/off push button had to be held down for 3 seconds to shut off the motor. Because of that terrible accident, an Immediate Off button should be incorporated, just like a key switch. Not only Toyota, but ALL car manufacturers should fix that engine on/off push button.

[Hatta]

Not only Toyota, but ALL car manufacturers should fix that engine on/off push button.

Yes, absolutely. Every car should come with one of these:

[Jrecee]

I would much prefer a mechanical cable as well. In the story about the lady with the lexus, everything basically went down, so her brakes wouldn't work, her accelerator pedal didn't do anything, and she even said shifting into neutral didn't accomplish anything. If it's a physical cable that has broken, it's pretty likely that either the brakes or shifting into neutral will still be a way to stop the car. I don't like the idea of getting the red ring or blue screen of death in my car.

That family that died in Southern Ca were killed in a Lexus loaner car. Maybe the driver was not familiar that engine on/off push button had to be held down for 3 seconds to shut off the motor. Because of that terrible accident, an Immediate Off button should be incorporated, just like a key switch. Not only Toyota, but ALL car manufacturers should fix that engine on/off push button.

I wasn't talking about the family that was killed in the loaner, I was talking about the lady who testified before congress a couple days ago.

Still, shutting off the car is not the first thing you should do if you experience unintended acceleration. If you shut off the car you'll also lose your power steering and other safety components (and possibly some of your braking power? I'm not sure). I don't remember anything in the lady's story about attempting to turn the car off though, but she did follow most of the procedures that you should follow; brake, check the accelerator pedal, shift into neutral.

Shutting the engine off should be a last resort, but I absolutely agree that there needs to be an instant shutoff. An accident can occur in a fraction of a second, there's no time to be holding down an ignition button for 3 seconds.

[Jrecee]

I also read this interesting comment on autoblog:

I think Toyota is pretty much a state run business, and that's why "financially oriented pirates" were put in charge. I believed Press when he said the government funded Prius development. I believe the car is being dumped on us (at a loss) to make it impossible for others to compete. That's why in comparison the Insight sucks and the Volt is so much more money. I believe Toyota is Japan's horse to dominate the auto industry. They pick a company in every sector and push it to win. Sony is/was their force in electronics and various Mitsubishi companies handle their military, space, banking and real estate. Remember in the 80's when everybody freaked out that Japan was buying up most of America? It was Mitsu who bought half the Rockefeller center in NYC. It is the Mitsubishi Bank of Tokyo that went on a spending spree in the last decade buying up banks to breifly become the world's largest. Press must have been very talented or highly regarded to get so high up in a company that is probably very xenophobic. I think he had more juice then Lentz who seems more of a fall guy or lackey to me.

So now here we are with Toyota making this huge push to dominate the auto industry, become number 1 in our market and eventually put GM, (and the rest of the D3) out of business. And they almost succeeded if not for Bush and Obama deciding not to let them go. Now this scandal has put a big monkey wrench in the plan, and its going to take more then government funding to put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

Even if this is not true for Japan (which I'm pretty sure it is, it's definitely true for china) it shows why our government DOES have to get involved in big business. The conservatives all argue that Obama bailing out the automakers is socialist bla bla bla, but other countries are doing this. How can our businesses compete if a communist country like China is pouring all of their resources into business, not allowing them to fail under any circumstance? It's a nice philosophy, the american dream of the government staying out of everything, but it's not realistic in a global economy. If we don't back our big companies against outsiders, how do we expect to compete? GM and Chrysler were basically defeated by the Japanese. Yeah they made crappy products in comparison for a while, but how can they compete against the unlimited resources that the Japanese government provides to Toyota? Recently Japan did a cash for clunkers type deal, but it was only effective for Japanese cars. We should have done this.

[CRTGAMER]

Even if this is not true for Japan (which I'm pretty sure it is, it's definitely true for china) it shows why our government DOES have to get involved in big business. The conservatives all argue that Obama bailing out the automakers is socialist bla bla bla, but other countries are doing this. How can our businesses compete if a communist country like China is pouring all of their resources into business, not allowing them to fail under any circumstance? It's a nice philosophy, the american dream of the government staying out of everything, but it's not realistic in a global economy. If we don't back our big companies against outsiders, how do we expect to compete? GM and Chrysler were basically defeated by the Japanese. Yeah they made crappy products in comparison for a while, but how can they compete against the unlimited resources that the Japanese government provides to Toyota? Recently Japan did a cash for clunkers type deal, but it was only effective for Japanese cars. We should have done this.

We compete by being competitive not a free never ending Handout. Quality product at a smart production run cost. Look at the pay scales for the auto workers in each country, especially health care its ridiculous. I don't mean that an American worker should be paid China wages, but let's be smart, there is way too much waste in Government run programs, especially when you see bank bail outs and stimulus packages. Here locally, 8 million stimulus for a public transportation trolley elevator platform. Note PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION, what percentage of the public is actually using that instead of direct convenience with own personal car. Socialism for very rich and very poor. Take a wild guess which tax bracket will be paying these "government free money" programs in years to come.

[Jrecee]

I don't think there is a right answer. Maybe there's not an answer at all. Can we keep up our standard of living and still be "free" while maintaining a lead over the chinese? It would seem to me that the average american's way of life would have to decrease, or we would have to give up a degree of freedom to compete with them. Either way we'll still be behind, because the people of China have given up both.

I don't think there is as big of a market for "Quality product at a smart production run cost" as there is "subpar product made dirt cheap, sold dirt cheap". There is a market for better products made in america, but it's not big enough to keep every American working. I try to buy american made products whenever I can, but sometimes it's hard, if not impossible. I think our culture has adapted to the low prices we expect from chinese goods. By that I mean our homes are sold at a price point that assumes we spend very little for other products. Our gas, water, and electricity bills are sold at a price point that assumes we buy cheap chinese products. Basically the cost for the necessities of life have been raised, the cost of american made products have been raised, because we have the money to spend on it from all we save on chinese products. I'm not sure how we get out of that rut.

[lost_within]

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