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Xeogred wrote:Do you guys think military time should be an equivalent to a degree on a resume? My dad always argues that. He put in a few years with the Navy but has always been irked about how glossed over it is back in the "real world".

I guess that's a whole different can of worms though.

Yes and no. I'd say it would depend on what your MOS was when you served. Like I wouldn't expect a Medical Corps Branch member to know anything about fixing a truck, but if it were a related field, then yes, particularly depending upon rank and time served.

One of the reasons I cast my vote for the current IT admin of our company, was that he'd done 16 years in the marines. That amount of time in the service normally indicates someone with excellent self discipline. Folks who can't keep it together usually wash out way before that amount of time. And he's done a solid job for us so far.

Yeah, my Dad was in the military (Army), and depending on the field, it should absolutely count, or at least count towards coursework for a degree or something. It's a significant factor.

A lot of folks have this misconception that a lot of military guys are brutish dolts, but they're actually more educated on average than the rest of the US populace. And there's no question that discipline comes in handy in other life pursuits.

I don't think military service should count as a degree (in general; obviously it should be handled on a case-by-case basis like AP credits and transferring from one college to another), but it should ABSOLUTELY count towards a degree. If you spent four years working on an aircraft carrier's engines, I'm not sure you should be given a degree in engineering (since I assume that implies knowledge of more than just your military experience would have provided), but it should definitely award credit for a huge chunk of the requirements for that degree.

Does that make sense? My opinion on that isn't the most informed since I'm not a veteran and personally know only combat veterans whose jobs (according to them) consisted mainly of "Patrol from point A to point B over and over again and shoot at shit," so if any of our members with military experience wish to enlighten me, I'd welcome the opportunity.

I'd say it'd depend, since you do have some people who get a lot of training and hands-on technical work...but you have a lot who are basically doing menial labor on the other side of the gate and could barely function without being told what to do and when (I lived on/around military bases until college).

For some jobs, veteran status and/or existing security clearances are major advantages over civilian applicants already.

Generally though, I guess I see it that jobs are usually asking for a degree for a reason. If, internally, the rational is simply someone who can complete tasks or something, then seeing someone did a tour should equate. If it's a "degree or relevant experience", then obviously it'd depend on what someone did in the service.

It's going to depend on rank primarily. You're going to be pretty capable if you're anything sergeant and past, but if you're a private or a corporal, you're just not going to have much experience. Time of service can be a pretty solid indicator of skill level.

I know that my Dad had a ton of different MOSs, with everything from artillery to medical units. He's got a really varied skill set. (He's also got his degree in banking & finance.)

The guys that can barely function are probably privates. Greenhorns. Newbs. Gotta start somewhere!

ElkinFencer10 wrote:Does that make sense? My opinion on that isn't the most informed since I'm not a veteran and personally know only combat veterans whose jobs (according to them) consisted mainly of "Patrol from point A to point B over and over again and shoot at shit," so if any of our members with military experience wish to enlighten me, I'd welcome the opportunity.

The military is effectively a self-contained society in its own right. A soldier's MOS(military occupation specialty) can range from a variety of types of work based on the needs of that society; while the fighting arm is what most people will think of, there are dozens of logistical and support roles which will need to be filled to supply, train, transport, treat, or heal those soldiers. Here are just a few examples of work in the military:

Medical personnel (doctors[including specialized physicians], dentists, nurses, veterinarians, physical therapists, dietitians, etc.)
Transportation (everything from truck drivers to railroad repairmen)
JAG (lawyers, paralegals, judges)
Military Police (including police, investigators, animal trainers)
Civil Affairs (effectively government workers)
Public Affairs (public relations and marketing)
Professors (ranging from Army Cyber Warfare to History to Math to Social Sciences)
Foreign Area Officers (diplomats)
Space Operations (scientists and astronauts)
Chaplains (priests, rabbis, ministers, mullahs, etc.)
Signal Corp (telecom industry[from radio to satellite tech])
Aviation (pilots, mechanics and repairers, air traffic controllers)
Corps of Engineers (from mechanical engineering to construction workers, firefighters)
Intelligence (cryptologists, linguists, analysts)
Finance (accountants)
Adjutant General Branch (Human Resources, bands, recruitment)
Acquisitions (Researchers, contract managers, engineering)
Chemical (chemists, nuclear engineers, biologists, etc.)
Electronic Warfare
Cyber Operations
Psychological Operations
Artillery (including air defense and field artillery)
Armor
Infantry

My father earned a masters in aerospace engineering while in the Army but also served in the Corps of Engineers, where he also received training as a civil and mechanical engineer. The variety of work he handled included everything from blowing up bridges and constructing airfields to ordinance disposal, intelligence, reconnaissance, infantry combat, and missile defense and design. He's a Ranger and was a Major when he left the service.

One of my stepbrothers just received his masters in international relations(which again the Army paid for) but also has language training, served on both the Army rugby team and skydiving team, trained with paratroopers in several nations, studied Russian history, and is currently prepping for Ranger school.

Sarge wrote:The guys that can barely function are probably privates. Greenhorns. Newbs. Gotta start somewhere!

Oh, totally. People that stay in and get promoted are going to improve. Not everyone does though, but still could have military service to list on their resume. That's why I'd tend to consider it more as job experience first and foremost. There's a ton of variety in what people can do in the service, and to be fair, a wide range of non-military experiences that might wind up being comparable - law enforcement for example.

Having the simple "but you need a college degree" requirement is kind of silly in a lot of cases though. One of my aunts is kinda in the applicable situation here. She didn't go to college and joined the Army instead. Didn't rise high or stay in long, but -today- is limited in how high she'll be promoted due to not having a degree. Makes little sense, as either would have been 30-odd years ago now.

My dad joined the Navy out of college though, as an officer, then stayed in the reserves when his tour was up and joined NIS/NCIS. So, he's now a retired Navy captain, retired NCIS...and still doing contract intelligence work because it's kind of his thing.

ElkinFencer10 wrote:I don't think military service should count as a degree (in general; obviously it should be handled on a case-by-case basis like AP credits and transferring from one college to another), but it should ABSOLUTELY count towards a degree. If you spent four years working on an aircraft carrier's engines, I'm not sure you should be given a degree in engineering (since I assume that implies knowledge of more than just your military experience would have provided), but it should definitely award credit for a huge chunk of the requirements for that degree.

Does that make sense? My opinion on that isn't the most informed since I'm not a veteran and personally know only combat veterans whose jobs (according to them) consisted mainly of "Patrol from point A to point B over and over again and shoot at shit," so if any of our members with military experience wish to enlighten me, I'd welcome the opportunity.

It does make sense, though most of the ratings also include A, C and advanced Tech schools for their given field. I think some of that schooling plus working the field definitely should count only for credits towards a degree. For example I worked catapults and arresting gear which branch out on knowledge of (hydraulic) Fluid power to various mechanical engineering and maintenance fields. On the other hand, most college courses really need to expand hands on the job field in order to earn that degree. Having retired from the Navy I prefer turning the wrench strictly as a hobby on my classic cars. If I ever think changing oil or pulling a starter motor is tight quarters; I just remember swapping out a Mark 6 Jet Blast Deflector hydraulic cylinder in the pit or cleaning honeycomb strainers in the water brake tank! I sure could have used that JBD porta-power for my Mustang Motor Mount Swap the other day.

I think the problem with military training is that they train folks specifically for the military's needs, and those needs are not always the same as civilian needs, meaning the training is often rather specific. For example, a medic isn't a doctor or a nurse, and medic training doesn't prepare them well to jump straight into either field (though EMT would probably be a breeze). What you would need is for the military to provide appropriate documentation so that schools could map the skills the military trains to their own classes and core competencies, and then the schools could perhaps make sure those mappings are correct by requiring some sort of placement test for applicable classes (at least for a few years until that relationship between schools and the military is solid enough that those placements aren't needed). It would also be appropriate for the military to provide some basic classes to help their specialists expand in their areas beyond the specialized military training. To continue with the medic example, if someone is a trained medic in the military, perhaps they could have the option to take a class or series of classes while serving that prepare them to enter nursing school (and knock out some of the required classes) or complete EMT certification before they exit service.

I think the other problem that exists is that many programs also include certain gen-ed prerequisites, for example, you need biology, chemistry, anatomy, genetics, and other pre-med gen-eds to go into medical school or nursing school. When you are trained to be a medic, you don't get that same broad educational base. Sadly, some of the schools best prepared to help veterans are the most questionable, being of the for-profit variety. They are good at accommodating veterans but bad at placing them in programs with good ROI.