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I refused to buy my PS3 at $600!!! Insane price, how are you going to put 100 million consoles out in the world at $600? (work more hours right?? LOL) Sony was cocky and saying they could sell a brick for $600, if it had the sony logo on it. Talk about feeling over confident. I did end up paying $500 which for about 1 full year after purchasing, i was thinking, i feel ripped off. I should have bought a xbox. (RRD scared me though). $500 and no good games, PSN sucked back then. Today i am happy with my system. Although this should have launched at $400 instead of $600.

Another thing I think is a problem with both the PS3 and the Xbox 360 is that you have so many different models with different hard drive storage. It feels like you're buying a computer... but they already make games for the computer, so why buy a console? It's not really playing to the strength of the console market, which is that you only have to buy one machine and then you can play your games without worries of having to upgrade your system.

The more consoles begin to feel like PCs, the more I just want to game solely on a PC.

J T wrote:Another thing I think is a problem with both the PS3 and the Xbox 360 is that you have so many different models with different hard drive storage. It feels like you're buying a computer... but they already make games for the computer, so why buy a console? It's not really playing to the strength of the console market, which is that you only have to buy one machine and then you can play your games without worries of having to upgrade your system.

The more consoles begin to feel like PCs, the more I just want to game solely on a PC.

Why do you think the Wii is selling like crazy? There's one Wii available, aside from a choice of White or Black (although the master stroke in that is that the Wii has hit market saturation so they invigorate buyer enthusiasm for the product by diversifying. A lot of people I know want a black Wii but they already have a white one. Of course the main reason they are reluctant of upgrading is because you can't transfer any of the games you have bought on your other Wii to the new one but that's for a different discussion). Nintendo did it right, they gave customers one device to buy and nothing else. Only once almost everyone owned one did they add in an alternative. They are waiting until sales slow down then generating new interest by releasing a new option.

Sony seem to have got this completely backwards, first the release a bunch of options, one not having enough features to justify the price, another having much more features but still not enough to justify that price. Then they go and remove features. On the other hand the 360 launched at a semi-reasonable price for a launch console, it wasn't really expensive, it was just average for launch hardware. Over time the console has added features not removed them. That's what I think Sony seriously fucked up on. They shouldn't have removed features. It just feels like they're lowering the value of the unit, yes they're dropping the price, but sacrificing features is definitely the wrong way of going about it, you're getting less for your money.

Yes I know that consoles remove features over time to make it cheaper to build, but these are usually features that are very rarely used and are removed VERY late in the console's life, like the digital output on the Gamecube, or the parallel port on the PS1 (which was removed to combat piracy, which I can totally understand).

Thats my sentiment exactly. If I want a PC to game I would buy one or upgrade the one I have. Having options is good but having too many scares people off, people are afraid they will get the wrong one for them.

I have held off getting a DS lite/DSi and PSP because of all the model changes. As soon as I am ready to buy one a new version is on the horizen. Hopefully the DSi XL will be it so I can make up my mind.

Niode wrote:Why do you think the Wii is selling like crazy?

Because Nintendo marketed the Wii like it was an Apple product?

Seriously, marketing is the biggest reason the Wii is selling like crazy. Aside from the Nintendo faithful and die-hard fans of Wii exclusives like TvC, No More Heroes and Muramasa, the Wii is riding on the backs of the sheeple they've suckered into buying the latest tech trend.

Niode wrote:It just feels like they're lowering the value of the unit, yes they're dropping the price, but sacrificing features is definitely the wrong way of going about it, you're getting less for your money.

And yet you are still getting an enormous value for your money - and all without having to buy a ton of extra crap. You've got your hard-drive & your WiFi right there in the box. All you need to buy in addition to the console are some games to go with it.

Niode wrote:Yes I know that consoles remove features over time to make it cheaper to build, but these are usually features that are very rarely used and are removed VERY late in the console's life, like the digital output on the Gamecube, or the parallel port on the PS1 (which was removed to combat piracy, which I can totally understand).

And the stuff they removed on the PS3 wasn't rarely used stuff? I admit, losing PS2 BC is a pain - but I never even considered buying a PS3 until they took PS2 BC out, making the system affordable. How often do you use OtherOS? How often do you use those SD Card ports and all that other crap?

From what I understand, the PS3 hack that has just recently come into being is thanks to the OtherOS. Would you be just as 'totally understanding' of them removing OtherOS due to piracy on the PS3 as you were for the Gamecube?

J T wrote:Another thing I think is a problem with both the PS3 and the Xbox 360 is that you have so many different models with different hard drive storage. It feels like you're buying a computer... but they already make games for the computer, so why buy a console? It's not really playing to the strength of the console market, which is that you only have to buy one machine and then you can play your games without worries of having to upgrade your system.

The more consoles begin to feel like PCs, the more I just want to game solely on a PC.

The advantage of the console over a PC is that a console will run any game made for that console. PCs, on the other hand... you'll be lucky if 1% of the PCs out there will run a game that was made for consoles - and even then, it'll probably have problems running it.

With consoles, if a game screws up, it's the developers' fault. If a game screws up on the PC, the developers get to say "It's your fault for not reading the system requirements, not updating your drivers, not making sure your video card is younger than one year and not running a proper benchmark test, you dumb sack of shit."

pepharytheworm wrote:Thats my sentiment exactly. If I want a PC to game I would buy one or upgrade the one I have. Having options is good but having too many scares people off, people are afraid they will get the wrong one for them.

I have held off getting a DS lite/DSi and PSP because of all the model changes. As soon as I am ready to buy one a new version is on the horizen. Hopefully the DSi XL will be it so I can make up my mind.

There's already been an accidental leak by one of the guys working on a new portable Zelda that there will be a new DS system. It'll have Wii-style motion control.

Honestly, you should just get a DS or DSlite. They're dirt cheap at this point.

the7k wrote:[

pepharytheworm wrote:Thats my sentiment exactly. If I want a PC to game I would buy one or upgrade the one I have. Having options is good but having too many scares people off, people are afraid they will get the wrong one for them.

I have held off getting a DS lite/DSi and PSP because of all the model changes. As soon as I am ready to buy one a new version is on the horizen. Hopefully the DSi XL will be it so I can make up my mind.

There's already been an accidental leak by one of the guys working on a new portable Zelda that there will be a new DS system. It'll have Wii-style motion control.

Honestly, you should just get a DS or DSlite. They're dirt cheap at this point.

I have the fat DS thats why I put lite and i.

Ah. Well, then I'd say save your money for a DSi, if you get one. There aren't enough games to justify it for me, but I am a bit interested in the WarioWare: DIY.

the7k wrote:

Niode wrote:Why do you think the Wii is selling like crazy?

Because Nintendo marketed the Wii like it was an Apple product?

Seriously, marketing is the biggest reason the Wii is selling like crazy. Aside from the Nintendo faithful and die-hard fans of Wii exclusives like TvC, No More Heroes and Muramasa, the Wii is riding on the backs of the sheeple they've suckered into buying the latest tech trend.

And the fact that their is only one type of Wii available had nothing to do with it? I doubt that. Diverse products lead to buyer hesitation.

the7k wrote:

Niode wrote:It just feels like they're lowering the value of the unit, yes they're dropping the price, but sacrificing features is definitely the wrong way of going about it, you're getting less for your money.

And yet you are still getting an enormous value for your money - and all without having to buy a ton of extra crap. You've got your hard-drive & your WiFi right there in the box. All you need to buy in addition to the console are some games to go with it.

Don't want to get into a price debate but 360 Elite 120GB is £180 with 4 games (including forza 3 and Bioshock 2) 2 controllers, HDMI cable and headset. PS3 120GB is £250 with DS3, nothing else, not even a fucking HD (yeah not even component) cable... Doesn't seem that good value at all. Not to the average consumer anyway... (We aren't talking about know-it-alls here, we're talking about the average consumers, if only hardcore gamers bought consoles then the video game industry would be in a very sorry state).

You don't have "to buy a ton of extra crap". Not everybody is going to need wireless, not everybody is going to need blu-ray video capabilities. Those are the only things the PS3 does that the 360 doesn't. I don't need wireless on my PS3 for example, my router is right next to my TV.

the7k wrote:

Niode wrote:Yes I know that consoles remove features over time to make it cheaper to build, but these are usually features that are very rarely used and are removed VERY late in the console's life, like the digital output on the Gamecube, or the parallel port on the PS1 (which was removed to combat piracy, which I can totally understand).

And the stuff they removed on the PS3 wasn't rarely used stuff? I admit, losing PS2 BC is a pain - but I never even considered buying a PS3 until they took PS2 BC out, making the system affordable. How often do you use OtherOS? How often do you use those SD Card ports and all that other crap?

From what I understand, the PS3 hack that has just recently come into being is thanks to the OtherOS. Would you be just as 'totally understanding' of them removing OtherOS due to piracy on the PS3 as you were for the Gamecube?

I use OtherOS for Zero Game Project all the time (It's essentially a maximus arcade-style frontend for wahcade) and allows me to play a shit load of roms for loads of systems on my PS3. I use the SD slot with an 8GB SD card for my MAME roms.

I was talking about the PS1 parallel port enabling piracy. Don't know where you got Gamecube from. The Parallel port on the PS1 wasn't used for anything but cheat devices, yes, that is ok to remove in my book. Removing the OtherOS feature isn't, since it isn't a single shot purpose (of course the port could have been used for other things but it wasn't therefore Sony were right to remove it to drive costs down) OtherOS is useful for quite a lot of things not just emulation.

Niode wrote:And the fact that their is only one type of Wii available had nothing to do with it? I doubt that. Diverse products lead to buyer hesitation.

Look at how well the iPhone is selling. The iPod. The DS. There's more versions of each of those than there are Street Fighter II. Doesn't matter. People still buy them in droves.

Marketing, marketing, marketing. This is all that matters, at least when it comes to selling a product.

Niode wrote:Don't want to get into a price debate but 360 Elite 120GB is £180 with 4 games (including forza 3 and Bioshock 2) 2 controllers, HDMI cable and headset. PS3 120GB is £250 with DS3, nothing else, not even a fucking HD (yeah not even component) cable... Doesn't seem that good value at all. Not to the average consumer anyway... (We aren't talking about know-it-alls here, we're talking about the average consumers, if only hardcore gamers bought consoles then the video game industry would be in a very sorry state).

You don't have "to buy a ton of extra crap". Not everybody is going to need wireless, not everybody is going to need blu-ray video capabilities. Those are the only things the PS3 does that the 360 doesn't. I don't need wireless on my PS3 for example, my router is right next to my TV.

I keep forgetting you live in the UK. I'm surprised that Microsoft is doing so much better in Europe than in America, considering - ya know - America is Microsoft's home turf, and all. Our Elite bundle comes with one controller, 120GB hard-drive and headset. It used to come with 2 games (LEGO Batman and Pure) and HDMI, but they took that out after Christmas. And in America, the Elite bundle is the same price as the PS3.

Niode wrote:I use OtherOS for Zero Game Project all the time (It's essentially a maximus arcade-style frontend for wahcade) and allows me to play a shit load of roms for loads of systems on my PS3. I use the SD slot with an 8GB SD card for my MAME roms.

I was talking about the PS1 parallel port enabling piracy. Don't know where you got Gamecube from. The Parallel port on the PS1 wasn't used for anything but cheat devices, yes, that is ok to remove in my book. Removing the OtherOS feature isn't, since it isn't a single shot purpose (of course the port could have been used for other things but it wasn't therefore Sony were right to remove it to drive costs down) OtherOS is useful for quite a lot of things not just emulation.

I'm still pretty sure Sony removed OtherOS because people were already figuring out how to hack it and go around certain protections Sony put in place for it. Either that, or they removed it because all those research groups that wanted a "Sold-below-its-cost" computer were buying them in droves, costing them a fortune. Either way, it's a self-defense maneuver. Any company would have done the same thing - although some companies handle this by intentionally bricking your system and/or corrupting your external memory devices.

OtherOS was good and all, but I found it a lot easier - and more freeing - to just find a cheap as hell PC and hook it to my TV for the sake of playing emulators and shit. And let's be honest, of the less than one percent of people who have OtherOS, over 99% of them are using it for no other reason than emulation.

Dylan wrote:Well, you have to buy controllers for the PS3 too.

You're overestimating the cost of a working 360. Most people I know purchased the console with a controller and hard drive for $400, and then bought Live for $50 (at launch). Very few people bother with anything else you've mentioned.

Another important factor is that by the time the PS3 came out, the 360 wasn't at launch price anymore. You could get one for $300 easily, compared to the $600 cost of a PS3, at which point paying an extra $50 for Live didn't seem so bad. Many people decided to put the extra $250 towards games, or just back in their pocket.

yeah, but you can use USB controllers and PS2 controllers (which many already have), so depending on what you're playing, the pack in controller is enough. At least you have the option of using cheaper 3rd party controllers on the PS3 also, on 360 it's only what Microsoft blesses, which isn't much.

That $50 live subscription adds up. While PS3 lives on for its 10+ year lifespan (Sony always keeps systems for 10 years unless they change their policy) with free online play, you'll still be bleeding money with your XBOX 360.

I find it hard to believe most people didn't buy the Wi-Fi adapter. Who the hell has a spare ethernet connection just hanging around? Most people I know don't even necessarily have a modem in the same room as their game system, so without Wi-Fi, they aren't going online. So instantly add $100 to any 360 if you want to ever play online.

PS3 dropped in price fast, and IIRC, the $300 360 at the time was just the base arcade/core system and came with jack shit. Original PS3s also had backwards compatibility, which you can subtract $100 for the cost of a separate PS2 slim (actually $130 was the price at the time if memory serves). Oh, and Blu Ray? yeah, Blu Ray. Everyone with an HDTV has pretty much universally declared Blu Ray beats the pants off of DVD.

I just can't see how anyone doesn't believe the PS3 is the better system, I've literally been scratching my head from the start.