Together Retro: First-Person Dungeon Crawlers

[pierrot]

It looks like I'm coming up to the final dungeon of Arcus 1. I've rescued three of the four elementals, and am headed to the mountains next, to rescue Salamander, which I've been informed by Vied, is where the king's knights were last sent to slay the the golden dragon before not returning. I'm a little surprised by the potential brevity of this quest, but it's been pretty all right to this point. I think Arcus 2 and 3 might be pretty similar lengths, though. We'll see.

[noiseredux]

Morrowind update: At a point now where I can beat the main quest. I just need to grab Sunder (already have Keening and Wraithguard) and head to Dagoth Ur's quarters and kill him. This has been a pretty quick playthrough with only the Thieves guild being completed of all the many sidequests. As it's the GOTY edition I can travel to Mournhold and Solstiem whenever and at my current level and with my equipment I don't forsee too many issues. While being an archer/stealth class sucked in the early game, now I can pick off even high level Ash vampires before they even realise I'm in the same room as them.
.

Wow how long did it take you to get to this point?

[Sload Soap]

It's hard to put an number on it but as we do in finance, I'll estimate and say around 25 hours. However this is my fifth or so playthrough of Morrowind so I know where the best stuff is and how to level quickly (protip: trainers). There's a real snowballing effect in Morrowind as well after you get past level 10. After that, and when you get enough gold to be comfortable, it's quite easy to start powering up. I'm level 30 now but ten of those have come in the last five hours of play.

[Sarge]

I have now finished my journey towards joining the cult of King's Field. The Ancient City has been bested. Those final areas... well, let's just say that even with my super-duper sword of awesomeness, the game clearly expects you to have said sword in your possession, and balances it a bit accordingly. The jail area itself is actually pretty easy; the sword does make that simple. But once you hit the area where you use the sword to clear the darkness away, things get a little tricky. You face some chick that floats around and goes invisible, all while being pelted by six shadow archers. I ended up pinging back and forth and popping them with one of my cheaper spells, Flash, and killed them off one by one until only the boss was left. Doing otherwise got me killed really fast before, and I lost all my progress through the jail to boot.

Anyway, beyond there is an altar where you place the Idol of Sorrow. Doing so drops you into some creepy, organic area where there are snake heads that come out of the walls and creepy biological enemies that are easy to beat. Once you find your way through that maze, you come to the area where the big bad resides, but there are wyverns flying around trying to pelt you with fireballs and some very powerful (crystal-like?) enemies that are easy to take on if you're being careful. Unfortunately, when you find the last boss and whack him with your sword, it drops you down where some of those enemies are, and your vulnerable state from falling can get you in trouble fast. I barely popped off a second heal in time, although in retrospect it would have been better to hit the menu and heal up from there. Still, I survived!

Three hits, and the game is done. I've found the whole experience to be a uniquely fascinating endeavor. If not for this month, I'd never have tried to work through the game, but I'm really glad I did. Despite the slow pace and difficult start, the game really starts to feel quite balanced and fun, and you start getting the hang of how the game wants you to think. There really is a learning curve, but once you get past it, those slow controls actually start to feel... right? At least manageable. But the exploration steals the show; the interconnected maps are really impressive, with nary a load screen in sight. You'll rarely find games that set such a somber and morose atmosphere as well. It really feels like you're in dank dungeons, or areas corrupted by evil. Even more impressive is that the game does this using less than amazing graphics on the PS2.

I'll be honest, when I started the game out, I was in the 5.5-6.0 territory, but I've watched my score steadily climb as I played through the game. Roughly 20 hours later, I'm going to say I'm up to an 8.0. It's a legitimately great game, and I'm glad I got to play it! (Now I need to track down a legit copy. *cough*)

[pierrot]

I vanquished the black dragon, Rig Vader, and saved the golden dragon, Rig Vader--don't worry, it kind of makes sense--thus finishing Chapter 1 - Trials of the Elementals in Arcus 1-2-3, which corresponds to the story of Arcus 1. It was kind of fun, and the story, while fairly simple, was also a bit interesting, if fairly trite by the end. It doesn't go reinventing the wheel, or anything, that's for sure. I ended my quest with a party consisting of Jeda, level 24 Holy Knight, Erin, level 25 Gladiator, Diana, level 25 Monster Hunter, Tron, level 25 Tradesman, Vied, level 28 Elemental Priest, and Pict, level 26 Sage. It plays a bit like a Wizardry-light, with really all of the focus on dungeons, and story sequences. There's really just one town, and it's also only one of two places where the game can be saved (there is actually another town, tucked away in the forests, where the elves are, it's just normally even less convenient than the main town). One main takeaway, for me, is that the first chapter was tremendously easy. Outside of the initial grinding in the first dungeon, my party and I were just a whirling dervish of death. Right at the end of the the first dungeon, the game gave me the strongest weapon in the game, and while it was made even stronger later on, it was never taken away from me, which I was a little surprised by. Other characters later had slightly more useful weapons, that could hit multiple enemies, though--like Erin's chain sword, which hit everything. Making Tron into a Tradesperson allowed me to use Silver Powders late in the game, to upgrade most everyone's weapons, and not only was I mowing down everything in the final dungeon, the entire time I was in there, nothing could actually hit me with a physical attack; it was either dodged, or did no damage.

So, I'm led to kind of wonder what the original PC version of Arcus 1 was like. For starters, from the screenshots I've seen, the art style is completely different, and it's even more Wizardry inspired, with D&D Armor Class stats. I would imagine that it's also substantially more challenging, but I really don't know. In the Sega CD version, I was really only ever remotely in danger, maybe once. Bosses were no more difficult than regular encounters, and aside from the beginning of the game, I think I can only count on one or two fingers the number of times one of my characters was bellow half health.

Anyway, I'll get off the subject of how easy it was, and talk a little bit about the sound. Most of the music is FM, and is fairly catchy, aside from the BGM in the final dungeon, which was kind of amusically atonal. There's a fair amount of voiced dialog, and a lot of it plays in battle when spells are cast, or when characters take the 'encourage' action on another (it restores some WP, which I think might stand for willpower, but is functionally MP, until it gets to 0 and supposedly saps strength). I actually turned off the voices in combat after a while, because it slows down combat a bit, but it's all good quality. There are also some voiced scenes with the characters' portraits in some areas, as well as some FMV cutscenes, which are fairly well done. Graphically, things look mostly all right, although the flip-book frame updating in dungeons can make things a little disorienting, and there's not a ton of detail in most of the graphical presentation. The background image used in the castle town kind of looks like a digitized painting, so that's kind of cool. I sort of prefer the style of the PC version from what I've seen of it, though.

That's one of three down, at least. I also started on Chapter 2 - Silent Symphony, which begins with Pict returning to Arcasus ten years after the end of Arcus 1. He was supposed to be out looking for his father, Anectious, but nothing has been mentioned about that--. Some little hobbit kid stole Pict's sword, almost immediately after he got off the boat. Although, he pretty much handed it right to the kid, and it was pretty clear what was going to happen. I don't know if I'm supposed to see Pict as just naive, or obtuse, at this point, but I feel like someone who was a sage at age seven or so shouldn't be so easily duped. Odd thing about this chapter is that Arcus 2 wasn't actually a first person dungeon crawler on the PC, but for consistency, it is in this Sega CD version.

It's at this point that I feel like I could end up losing a bit of steam. We'll see, but I'm basically in the same place I was in the first game, and I get the sense I may have to just keep retreading the same places I went to in the first chapter. Not sure how excited I am for that, and that could end up being one of the biggest detriments to this version, compared to the PC versions, where the times between releases would probably make for slightly fresher experiences.

[crazythink4]

Put in a few more hours into Shining in the Darkness. I got my teammates leveled up somewhat and now I’m working through the first trial in the Cave of Strength.

A few noteworthy things:

1. Once you get your companions, your encounter rate goes waaay up. This was probably the right decision because otherwise you’d be running around a lot more trying to gain XP. It does slow down the pace though, but it likely makes things faster overall.
2. There’s a fun animation when the Kaiser Crab appeared as a boss. It pops up randomly afterwards with the same show where it walks out and sizes you up before attacking. You run into it as a random enemy afterward, but only when you’re approaching an intersection so that the animation of it peeking around a corner can play.
3. I ran into my second enemy which has an animation when appearing: when you open some chests in the Cave of Strength, a Chest Beak can pop out. These guys are nasty to lower level players; the first I met one-shotted each of my companions and left me limping back to town. It’s looking like when enemies animate in, you’re in for a fight!
4. Lastly, as is common in older RPGs, the cost to raise your characters from the dead increases as they gain levels. This means that you can run into trouble if you spend all of your gold and be stuck having to raise more if there’s an inadvertent death. Not sure if a raise spell will be available later, but it’d be a huge money-saver.

Still enjoying my game choice and I would say that Shining in the Darkness fall solidly into the easier side of dungeon crawlers. Will post more as I delve further.

[Exhuminator]

I have now finished my journey towards joining the cult of King's Field. The Ancient City has been bested.

Congratulations, you've beaten one of the best games I've played in my 35 years of gaming. I knew you had it in you!

those slow controls actually start to feel... right?

They are right. The combat falls betwixt a magic niche existing between turn-based and twitch-action. It's fast enough that you have to react reflexively with some level of dexterous skill, yet slow enough that you can tactically use spells or items to your advantage. It's a brilliant combat system IMO.

I'll be honest, when I started the game out, I was in the 5.5-6.0 territory, but I've watched my score steadily climb as I played through the game. Roughly 20 hours later, I'm going to say I'm up to an 8.0. It's a legitimately great game, and I'm glad I got to play it!

That's the thing with people that try KF. They play one for 15 minutes and think "this is crap!" and move on. It happened to me the first time I played KF4. I played it for 15 minutes, thought it was junk, and didn't touch it again for five years. After beating Eternal Ring (on a bet via Ghideon Zhi from AGTP), I enjoyed it so much I decided to give KF4 another try. After a few hours I "got" it, and was hooked. Now you "get it", and the good news is there's plenty more FromSoftware FPDCs out there for you to enjoy.

---

Well folks I put three hours into Wizardry - Tale of the Forsaken Land for PS2 tonight. This is a 2001 release I can't recall ever reading anyone discussing on any gaming forum I've been on. Not sure why that is. I'm impressed with what I've played so far... graphically, aurally, and game design wise this has been solid. You're allowed to create your central character, and I went with an Elf Sorcerer. From there I picked up some other party members; a priest, a warrior, and a ninja. We killed a lot of stuff, nabbed a lot of loot, and are slowly mapping out an evil labyrinth residing in a frozen wasteland. Some screenshots:



I'm cautiously optimistic.

[prfsnl_gmr]

I have a copy, but haven’t played it. (It isn’t an easy game to find!). Is it free-roaming or grid-based? Likewise, how is the combat and difficulty?

[BoneSnapDeez]

Put in a few more hours into Shining in the Darkness. I got my teammates leveled up somewhat and now I’m working through the first trial in the Cave of Strength.

A few noteworthy things:

1. Once you get your companions, your encounter rate goes waaay up. This was probably the right decision because otherwise you’d be running around a lot more trying to gain XP. It does slow down the pace though, but it likely makes things faster overall.
2. There’s a fun animation when the Kaiser Crab appeared as a boss. It pops up randomly afterwards with the same show where it walks out and sizes you up before attacking. You run into it as a random enemy afterward, but only when you’re approaching an intersection so that the animation of it peeking around a corner can play.
3. I ran into my second enemy which has an animation when appearing: when you open some chests in the Cave of Strength, a Chest Beak can pop out. These guys are nasty to lower level players; the first I met one-shotted each of my companions and left me limping back to town. It’s looking like when enemies animate in, you’re in for a fight!
4. Lastly, as is common in older RPGs, the cost to raise your characters from the dead increases as they gain levels. This means that you can run into trouble if you spend all of your gold and be stuck having to raise more if there’s an inadvertent death. Not sure if a raise spell will be available later, but it’d be a huge money-saver.

Still enjoying my game choice and I would say that Shining in the Darkness fall solidly into the easier side of dungeon crawlers. Will post more as I delve further.

How far along are you? All my characters are around level 14, I did a lot of grinding on the respawning Kaiser Crab. I can now take him down with three physical attacks (one from each character) and the XP he's dishing out isn't cutting it anymore, so I'll move on. I think these respawing boss creatures are the best way to grind. I believe I've explored most of the cave of strength. Ran in to some enemies who kept putting me asleep so I made a quick escape. I have a super-powered shield that was "randomly" available at the armory. Paid 3500.

I've barely made a dent in the game, seemingly. This is likely to consume most if not all of the entire month for me. I'm okay with that.

[Exhuminator]

Is it free-roaming or grid-based?

WTotFL's movement is node/grid-based. The dungeons are polygonal 3D, and you can use the right stick to free-look around.

Likewise, how is the combat and difficulty?

WTotFL's combat is turn-based. It's classic style with front rows and back rows (you can put party members where you want them in the rows). WTotFL also allows for "allied attacks" where your party members can co-attack together for more powerful moves.

Party member design has some flexibility to it. For example you can create magic stones from random junk you find while exploring, as in two broken swords can fuse into a fire magic stone. Then you can use those stones to teach party members magic. So I taught my ninja how to use a fireball spell by applying the fire magic stone to him.

Thus far difficulty has been moderate, you can tell this game wasn't designed for genre novices in mind. You have to pay attention right out the gate. Reading the manual reveals that party member death can be permanent. There's no guarantee you can bring someone back to life. You can see enemies slinking around in the dungeon in real time as various symbols, they are constantly moving. It's kind of like how you see FOEs in Etrian Odyssey, except these enemies move even if you're not. So you have to be careful to not let one of them run into your back, that causes a back attack. Meaning your rear row (like physically weaker sorcerers or priests) are now taking the brunt of the surprise attack. I almost lost my sorcerer to a back attack. Conversely you can also sneak up on enemies like that, and have combat initiative.