World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[Exhuminator]

But often we are faced with a choice where one party or the other is going to have to be affected negatively.

Negatively affecting a religious party's emotions is not as severe as negatively affecting an entire societal party's ability to live their life equal to the religious party's.

[Pulsar_t]

I will just leave this here

[AppleQueso]

But often we are faced with a choice where one party or the other is going to have to be affected negatively.

Negatively affecting a religious party's emotions is not as severe as negatively affecting an entire societal party's ability to live their life equal to the religious party's.

Or, in other words, prioritizing the privileged group (and make no mistake, christians absolutely hold a privileged position in American society) over the marginalized group is undesirable.

The bill in question is homophobic. The only reason it exists, was voted on, and was ultimately passed was due to people specifically wanting to deny service to gay people. It wasn't passed because people want to deny service to known atheists or non-christians or adulterers or sex workers or any other person known to actively partake in so-called sinful behavior, but specifically against gay people. It was pushed in response to expanding gay rights.

If this wasn't the case, it would've been pushed in other contexts. The arguments would've been presented in the context christian-owned businesses up in arms for having to serve any of these other groups of people, but instead we see it specifically targeting the LGBT community.

I know i'm being really redundant here, but I think it's important to hammer this point home. "Religious freedom" in this instance is little more than a legal argument to help the bill, and a smokescreen to justify bigotry.

[dsheinem]

But often we are faced with a choice where one party or the other is going to have to be affected negatively.

Negatively affecting a religious party's emotions is not as severe as negatively affecting an entire societal party's ability to live their life equal to the religious party's.

Or, in other words, prioritizing the privileged group (and make no mistake, christians absolutely hold a privileged position in American society) over the marginalized group is undesirable.

C'mon! You know that nationally, just like on this board, Christians are a persecuted minority in danger of having their customs and beliefs trampled upon!

[jp1]

C'mon! You know that nationally, just like on this board, Christians are a persecuted minority in danger of having their customs and beliefs trampled upon!

As a Christian who supports human rights in all forms, and actively defends them in this case and on every other occasion; I have to say that was a little hostile.

[Sarge]

If one thinks forcing someone to commit sin against their God is a small matter, that it is worth infringing on their religious freedom for flowers or pictures for a wedding ceremony (and not being denied solely based on sexuality), then there's nothing else I can say.

Look on the bright side: I don't see religion holding any sort of protected status by the end of my life, if not sooner.

[dsheinem]

Awesome post, Dave.

I really don't see any "persecution" of Christianity on this board or anywhere else. I do engage in efforts to "push back" at religion in those instances where it engages the state and uses its status as a majority ideology to justify the infringement of others' rights, safety, etc.

I believe this forum shows plenty of respect for religion (organized or otherwise), but when religious views are expressed in a way that use faith as justification for legal infringement of others' life, liberty, etc. then potentially "hostile" responses are going to happen.

[Michi]

Awesome post, Dave.

I really don't see any "persecution" of Christianity on this board or anywhere else.

I don't either. I see a lot of disagreement regarding a specific viewpoint, but disagreeing with a viewpoint of a single group does not mean the opposing group wishes for the other to collectively take a long walk off a short pier...at gunpoint.

[AppleQueso]

Meanwhile, members of faith on this board consistently make efforts to be sensitive and tolerant of other beliefs and sensitivities on this board.

Speaking from the perspective of a member of the queer community, my observation is that the general view of the religious members on this board towards queerness is that we're poor lost souls who need your pity and guidance.

How often do you or others pray for me (or those like me) to cast away my identity, I wonder?

I am deeply mistrustful of religion. Should I even need to explain why? This thread has been an excersize in homophobia apologism, because apparently according to many adherents the mistreatment and dehumanization of gay people is totally justified if the bigot in question invokes god.

...and don't even dare bring up the Westboro Baptists or Scott Livelys of the world. They've created a narrative that suggests if you aren't screaming and picketing random funerals for shock value or literally pushing for the criminalization and sometimes murder of gay people to stop the 'homosexual agenda' then you can't possibly be engaging in perpetuating a heterosexist society. They give people an outlet to ignore the often far more insidious silent discrimination that is constantly perpetuated and justified by many many people on the religious right, including several in this very thread.

When called out on it, you jump to this 'you're the REAL bigot' nonsense.

Fuck that.

[jp1]

Meanwhile, members of faith on this board consistently make efforts to be sensitive and tolerant of other beliefs and sensitivities on this board.

Speaking from the perspective of a member of the queer community, my observation is that the general view of the religious members on this board towards queerness is that we're poor lost souls who need your pity and guidance.

How often do you or others pray for me (or those like me) to cast away my identity, I wonder?

I am deeply mistrustful of religion. Should I even need to explain why? This thread has been an excersize in homophobia apologism, because apparently according to many adherents the mistreatment and dehumanization of gay people is totally justified if the bigot in question invokes god.

...and don't even dare bring up the Westboro Baptists or Scott Livelys of the world. They've created a narrative that suggests if you aren't screaming and picketing random funerals for shock value or literally pushing for the criminalization and sometimes murder of gay people to stop the 'homosexual agenda' then you can't possibly be engaging in perpetuating a heterosexist society. They give people an outlet to ignore the often far more insidious silent discrimination that is constantly perpetuated and justified by many many people on the religious right, including several in this very thread.

When called out on it, you jump to this 'you're the REAL bigot' nonsense.

Fuck that.

I certainly hope that this is not the feeling you get from my posts. I have no homophobia "apologism" because I am not homophobic. I do not place any judgment on you or anyone like you and furthermore I make no effort to pray for you to "change". I respect your right to lead your own life and be yourself, make your own choices, and make up your own mind. I feel as though this lumping in of "religious people" as bigots is completely ignoring the fact that I am actively trying to curb that exact perception.

Further, if some religious members have it ingrained in their faith and feel it necessary to their core beliefs to consider homosexuality a sin...well, that is their right as well. So long as they are being respectful of you and your lifestyle and they aren't actively trying to denigrate you, rather speaking solely about their own belief. Of course you, and even I for that matter, have the right to disagree. Unfortunately almost everyone is bigoted in one way or another, some forms are simply (and sadly) more socially acceptable than others. There has been some bad communication at play here from both sides.

I was simply being facetious with Dave about being offended at his post, perhaps that wasn't clear enough. However, there are members here who are religious and do not judge your lifestyle. There are other members here who are religious who do not agree with your lifestyle, but respect your right to live it and actively stray from topics such as these. There are also members here who use religion as an excuse or a means of exercising real bigotry, these are the exception and not the rule in my opinion. It only seems fair to keep a fair outlook and distinguish between the differences in people of faith who post here. Lumping us all together as some sort of ignorant "God hates queers" type isn't much better than people making judgments on you solely based on your sexuality.