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BoneSnapDeez wrote:MAKE THEM LISTEN TO CANDLEMASS

fuck yes

they're deaf if they don't think this is heavy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4ImGmIQ_NA

(no I'm not posting the amazing Bewitched video)

Forlorn Drifter wrote:@AQ, you should totally write a song about how *insert your genre here* is the best form of metal, and that everything else sucks. Like Manowar. Or maybe like Lich King. (Except your lyrics shouldn't be written by a 13 year old, and your music shouldn't be ripped off from those who created the genre...)

I agree, but I think AQ would do even better if he wrote a song that starts off claiming this and slowly devolves into realization that his genre totally sucks too, but he's still gonna kick ass for it. Some of the best media comes from folks that know it's terrible but are still having a hell of a lot of fun.

Forlorn Drifter wrote:@EDIT: I had some conversations this morning with various people, and I've essentially found that anything with clean vocals is not really considered heavy metal by anyone under 25 or so anymore. They pretty much consider it hard rock. Its kind of a weird thought for me. I knew people associated harsh vocals with metal and stereotyped it that way, but it confuses me that they don't consider something with clean vocals as even a part of metal. I guess, to an extent, that is how it is really viewed in the mainstream overall. A lot of classic metal gets radio play, including the Big Four and such. Hmm.

What gets considered "harsh vocals" these days? Is falsetto considered harsh? Is King Diamond not metal, while that screamo type garbage is, just because it has a repetitive guitar riff, a standard-issue breakdown, and some guy who thinks screaming about his high school sweetheart not answering his texts is "fucking brutal"?

You know what? Brian Posehn is right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y24MmylTeY4

I guess "screamo" is another genre tag that got appropriated by pop scenester chodes, huh?

Back in my day, this type of thing was screamo.

But yeah - "harsh vocals" are tough to define. My mother would say that AC/DC has harsh vocals.

Who was the first "harsh" vocalist anyway? Was Lemmy harsh? Cronos? Tom Araya? Tom G. Warrior?

Actually now that I think about it it was probably some punk band.

Ack wrote:

Forlorn Drifter wrote:@AQ, you should totally write a song about how *insert your genre here* is the best form of metal, and that everything else sucks. Like Manowar. Or maybe like Lich King. (Except your lyrics shouldn't be written by a 13 year old, and your music shouldn't be ripped off from those who created the genre...)

I agree, but I think AQ would do even better if he wrote a song that starts off claiming this and slowly devolves into realization that his genre totally sucks too, but he's still gonna kick ass for it. Some of the best media comes from folks that know it's terrible but are still having a hell of a lot of fun.

Yeah I think that whole idea is a tad too meta for me.

On the flipside, it almost sounds like something Devin Townsend might do.

At one point I used to pretty strongly dislike harsh vocals, wouldn't listen to anything with them. Specifically anything that could be interpreted as screaming or growling (you know what I mean, there's a clear distinction between Motorhead and Suffocation). The only reason being that I didn't think it sounded very good, so it took me awhile to give bands with harsh vocals a shot (I'm talking several years ago, as obviously all my tastes are centered around bands with harsh vocalists). Once I did I found that I quickly fell in love with a ton of death metal bands.

Funny thing is, I still don't really like the vocals in most metal bands. There are a few select vocalists that I think pull it off so well and sound so unique that it does enhance the music (Schuldiner is probably my favorite death metal vocalist), but for the most part I am ignoring the vocals and just listening to the instruments and paying attention to the composition. It's a weird relationship I have with metal.

I hear a similar story from most people (the whole having to warm up to even tolerating harsh vocals).

Kinda makes me wonder if I'm the only one who actually thought growls were friggin' awesome the very first time I heard them? It was like "WOAH THAT BAND SOUNDS LIKE THEY HAVE A MONSTER SINGING FOR THEM OR SOMETHING."

brunoafh wrote:(Schuldiner is probably my favorite death metal vocalist)

My issue with Chuck is how wildly inconsistent he is. I mean just look at Leprosy, Spiritual Healing, Human, Symbolic, and TSOP, and he sounds totally different on each one.

I personally think he sounded best on Symbolic. He sounds really bad on Spiritual Healing.

My favorite growlers are Karl Willets and Barney Greenway. Those guys are the reason I started learning how to do growls.

Only vocal styles I really dislike are the typical BDM sounds. You know, frog-sounding inhales, pig squeals, and "backed-up-septic-tank" vocals. It's never enough to kill a song for me, but every time I hear them I just go "maaaaaaaan, really?" I never really got what was supposed to be "brutal" about sounding like a frog.

AppleQueso wrote:I hear a similar story from most people (the whole having to warm up to even tolerating harsh vocals).

Kinda makes me wonder if I'm the only one who actually thought growls were friggin' awesome the very first time I heard them? It was like "WOAH THAT BAND SOUNDS LIKE THEY HAVE A MONSTER SINGING FOR THEM OR SOMETHING."

brunoafh wrote:(Schuldiner is probably my favorite death metal vocalist)

My issue with Chuck is how wildly inconsistent he is. I mean just look at Leprosy, Spiritual Healing, Human, Symbolic, and TSOP, and he sounds totally different on each one.

I personally think he sounded best on Symbolic. He sounds really bad on Spiritual Healing.

Only vocal styles I really dislike are the typical BDM sounds. You know, frog-sounding inhales, pig squeals, and "backed-up-septic-tank" vocals. It's never enough to kill a song for me, but every time I hear them I just go "maaaaaaaan, really?" I never really got what was supposed to be "brutal" about sounding like a frog.

How do you feel about stuff like Vampire Mooose?

Ack wrote:How do you feel about stuff like Vampire Mooose?

I had to look them up.

Guy sounds like he's got his voice going through a distorted guitar amp or something. Can't say I'm crazy about that sort of effect, but it doesn't really bother me or anything.

AppleQueso wrote:My issue with Chuck is how wildly inconsistent he is. I mean just look at Leprosy, Spiritual Healing, Human, Symbolic, and TSOP, and he sounds totally different on each one.

I don't know if he's inconsistent as much as indecisive. On Sound of Perseverance he has pretty much changed vocal style entirely, but yeah on the early albums he never sounds quite the same, other than on Human and Individual Thought Patterns (his performance on these two are why he's my favorite).

Those guys are the reason I started learning how to do growls.

How does one even go about doing that? I've never really looked into it, but I can't even imagine how some of those really off the wall guys manage to sound like they do (John Tardy and the singer for Pestilence come to mind).

I was hesitant about being in a band with harsh vocals for awhile too before I caved. I remember in high school I formed a bizarre band with this guy I knew that was a pretty renowned local performer in musicals and stuff. He didn't want to do metal though so I just wrote weird dance stuff strung together with random metal guitar riffs and solos. He was really strange and his lyrics were totally out there and made no sense. The end result was like listening to Gaston from Beauty and the Beast on acid front a bipolar rock group. We weren't very popular. I managed to find this song we recorded

brunoafh wrote:

Those guys are the reason I started learning how to do growls.

How does one even go about doing that? I've never really looked into it, but I can't even imagine how some of those really off the wall guys manage to sound like they do (John Tardy and the singer for Pestilence come to mind).

Tardy and Van Drunen both do some really weird and distinct stuff, I have absolutely no idea how they pull it off. Growls in general aren't really the sort of thing that has any "proper" technique anyway, and every vocalist who does it kinda has their own approach.

This is how I approach it:
Doing a growl is kinda similar to doing a really annoyed "ugh" grunt. You basically have to figure out how to manipulate your throat to do that on command, and figure out the right positioning so you aren't just hurting your throat. I sometimes have a teensy little bit of trouble with the latter, but once I find that spot after a bit of warming up I'm good for a session.

Also lots and lots of water, as well as any technique that's normally helpful with "normal" singing will go a long way, especially all the breathing stuff. I also find that it helps to make sure you're just vibrating the vocal "flaps" with air and trying to keep as much of your natural voice out of it as you can. Otherwise it can start to hurt.

I managed to find this song we recorded

Ha that's... interesting. It's a bit oddball, but I kinda like oddball stuff so it works for me.