Together Retro: Final Fantasy Spin-Offs

[noiseredux]

I've never played any KH game. I've never been interested.

That said, DSH is totally dead inside.

[dsheinem]

I've never played any KH game. I've never been interested.

That said, DSH is totally dead inside.

Haha!

I’m the happiest and easiest going person you’ll find! I have nothing but joy in my heart and a spring in my step!

[MrPopo]

It's probably the greatest JRPG series of all time.

You had me going, but you let this slip. We all know you think King's Field is the best.

[ESauced]

Yeah I’ll still maintain that Kingdom Hearts is not perfect but it’s a decent game. I think you guys are a little carried away with how bad you’re saying it is. There are far worse things you could be playing. Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions for instance.

And yeah, this is a video game forum; I don’t really feel like we’re the ones to judge people for having childish hobbies.

[Sload Soap]

I think a game as clunky as Kingdom Hearts would have been long forgotten if it didn't have Disney plastered all over it.

I started up Dirge of Cerberus and got pretty far into it. It's not actually as bad as I'd heard. Not to say it's any good but there's a certain amount of fun to be had outside of the fanservice. Vincent is the quintessential cut-scene badass, flipping around to dodge missiles while firing his triple barrelled pistol. In game though he is much less athletic, reduced to mostly scuttling about on the ground while circle strafing his enemies.

The only real gimmick is that you can upgrade said pistol on the fly with a variety of different barrels and scopes to alter its range, power, firing speed, etc. You can also add materia which is functionally a grenade launcher. You get three "frames" to customise and you can change between them on the fly. And you can't just slap all the best stuff on one frame as it'll weigh more and Vinnie will move slower.

Otherwise everything is just very standard bar Square's usual flair for cut-scenes. The story is the usual post 2000 Squaresoft nonsense, part Metal Gear, part FFVII slashfic. Trashy but not so bad it needs skipping. Vincent himself is voiced by Steve Blum so the crappy dialogue is delivered with some gravitas.

I'll probably end up finishing it tonight and be back at Crisis Core soon.

[alienjesus]

Wow, I really poked the hornet's nest with my last post huh?

I have never, ever understood the appeal of Kingdom Hearts.

I also don't understand grown adults who fawn over every Disney (and/or Pixar) animated film like they collectively compose some sort of sacred canon against which one should measure all other similar entertainment. I know people in their 30s (and older) who wrap their own identity up in this brand and collect fucking Disney pins so that they can wear them around in public and who talk about a trip to one of the theme parks as if it is the best possible thing that one can do for a vacation. I can get feeling an obligation to take your kids there...but if you are a reasonable well-adjusted adult Disney World is not a suitable fucking destination for your honeymoon or retirement celebration...

I have to disagree with you on this one, if someone is into their Disney stuff then I don't see why that should be a problem. We literally all voted for a theme last month where we played video games designed primarily for children based on TV shows and films made primarily for children. If someone likes a thing, I think doing that thing is a perfectly fine way to spend a special occasion. It's not my personal preference (I hate theme parks) but I don't begrudge people who want to spend some time doing something they love.

I mean, I get the appeal of nostalgia (this is a retro game forum after all), but I can't see subjecting myself to dozens of hours playing a JRPG (or a series of them) that is based on the fictions surrounding children's characters. "OMG I can't wait to see how Goofy and Donald resolve this relational tension with Tidus!" "Maybe Mickey will get enough gil to buy the Fantasia hat and summon Ifrit! OMG a cameo by Ariel!?! Be still my heart!" This is how I imagine players must be responding when they play that series.

So, I've always thought ther premise of the series was kinda dumb, and the story has gotten way too angsty and overly complex over the years for it's own good, but my understanding was that it was a mechanically strong ARPG and so I thought it was worth a go. I've been surprised by games with less talent behind them after all. I have to say though, I currently feel like that I have been misled. Frankly, when I compare it even to other games from the era it feels really weak. Zelda combat is better than this, and it was better than this even in the N64 days.

As far as story featuring childrens characters with angst and relational tension, yeah, it's crap. But man, kids lap this shit up. It's why Sonic the Hedgehog stories of the era became really silly and angsty too. Sometimes I'm happy to accept a stories flaws on the premise thaty maybe in another point in my life I'd have appreciated it more - when I was the primary audience.

Also, the currency in the game isn't called gil. It's called Munny. Yes. Really.

I also do not really get the appeal of Kingdom Hearts or Disney Land/World at all, even as I have many friends who do love those games and those places. I even grew up loving Disney movies. They just aren't some huge part of my identity.

I mean, that's fine, different strokes for different folks right? Personally I'll take the saccharine commericalisation of disney over a lot of the dark toned stuff thats out there. The world is dark enough already, I'm always ready for a bit of a release. Also, whilst it isn't part of my identity any more, some of those films really did define me as a kid. I was obsessed with The Little Mermaid, Aladdin and The Lion King.

I enjoy the Kingdom Hearts series and it’s definitely in large part due to nostalgia. I’m not Disney crazy (my wife is though) but I grew up watching these movies. The little kid in me smiles when I get to the hundred acre woods in Kingdom Hearts, or fight oogie boogie with jack skellington by my side.

But I also think that when the game came out it was a pretty solid action rpg. I get that the gameplay aged poorly but there are plenty of other 3d games from the Ps1 and PS2 era that aged just as terribly. If you played it when it came out you are used to the flaws and they don’t bug you so much; they’re much more glaring when you visit a game 10+ years after release. I mean, I imagine if you tried the original metal gear solid for the first time today, if your only exposure to the series was MGSV, you’d find some of the mechanics pretty off-putting.

I guess my issue with Kingdom Hearts is that it presents itself as a merging of the FF and Disney worlds, but in reality, it manages neither. The disney characters feel like references, parodies, knock offs of their real self. Just going 'ooh look, the cave of wonders from Aladdin' isn't that exciting to me - I'd rather just watch Aladdin and see it for real. The FF side is just as bad. Why is their an 8 year old version of Selphie from FF8 in the opening section and then an adult version of Squall (a character from the same universe and 1 year different in age in the game) 15 minutes later? Because these are not the characters from FF8, they're just characters with their names and faces. They're just actors playing a role, not the characters I liked from the actual series.

The disney characters feel like a role that is being played by a different actor. The FF characters feel like they are actors playing a different role. Neither feel like they are the characters people care about.

I disagree on the solid ARPG thing - it's OK, but it's got obvious flaws, and I can guarantee you I would have thought those were flaws back in the early 2000s too. I did play MGS on PS1 a few years back, and I thought it had aged well. I do not feel like Kingdom Hearts has - and I'#m not convinced it was that great to start with unfortunately.

And yeah, this is a video game forum; I don’t really feel like we’re the ones to judge people for having childish hobbies.

Yeah, I agree with this. Let's face it guys - Video Games are much more than 'just for children' but a significant portion of the classic games we played were developed primarily for kids. They were the target demographic.

The premise and execution of Kingdom Hearts definitely has issues, but being targeted at kids is not one of them as far as I'm concerned.

I think a game as clunky as Kingdom Hearts would have been long forgotten if it didn't have Disney plastered all over it.

Perhaps? I feel that if Disney wasn't involved it'd be called 'Final Fantasy: Kingdom Hearts' or something and we'd all be playing it this month anyway. The Disney part of the game seems to be less and less pronounced with each subsequent game anyway.

[dsheinem]

And yeah, this is a video game forum; I don’t really feel like we’re the ones to judge people for having childish hobbies.

I don't think that video games is a childish hobby. Most video games are not made for children, nor has that been true of the industry since the late 1980s/early 1990s.

Disney's animated movies are made for children. I have no problem with someone enjoying those movies (I myself like the vast majority of them)...I have a problem with people who structure significant portions of their adult identities around children's entertainment. I tend to think this kind of person as the target demographic for the Kingdom Hearts series, but perhaps that is unfair.

[noiseredux]

Most video games are not made for children, nor has that been true of the industry since the late 1980s/early 1990s.

good point. Those "mario games" haven't really sold well ever since GTA came along.

Hey um, back on topic - I put in a fair amount of time on Type-0 over the weekend.

@Exhum: Remember when you mentioned that the HD version does *some* things to make this game a bit more bearable? Well apparently those mediocre RTS missions are now optional. I say "apparently" because I didn't realize this until AFTER I had started the last one.

The game continues to amaze and befuddle me. It's constantly throwing in new shit - one section of a mission suddenly turns into a sort of on-rails lightgun style shooter thing. Such a weird FF game. Anyway I finished up Chapter 7, and when that one ends you're suddenly dropped to the extreme opposite end of the world map. You can't use a Teleport Stone or anything to get back quickly. It is 100% just the game being an asshole and making you kill s'more time. Because as much as Type-0 wants to be all things to all fans, more than anything it's an asshole.

But I made the long trek back - even saw one of those weirdo cactus dudes that shows up in many FF games. And when I got back to Akedemia I was introduced to the final mission... by Cid. Yes, Cid. Apparently the final mission is some long ass gauntlet thing where you control TWO teams of three and basically each room is a different challenge you have to pass. Hopefully I can tackle it tonight.

[Exhuminator]

this is a video game forum; I don’t really feel like we’re the ones to judge people for having childish hobbies.

TIL kids enjoy Europa Universalis IV, Nobunaga's Ambition: Taishi, and TransOcean 2: Rivals.

I don't think that video games is a childish hobby.

Silly dsheinem, games are for kids!

-

But seriously, sure some games are meant for kids, and some aren't. Kingdom Hearts is likely meant for children, I can believe that. But the video game medium in and of itself isn't "childish". That's like calling films "childish" because a large swath of movies are kid cartoons. Or like calling reading "childish" because tons of children's books exist. Just as there are films and books obviously aimed at adults, so too is that true for the unfortunately named medium "video games".

Apparently the final mission is some long ass gauntlet thing where you control TWO teams of three and basically each room is a different challenge you have to pass. Hopefully I can tackle it tonight.

Good luck man, hope you can beat it and come away having enjoyed the experience overall.

-

I'm at about 12 hours in FFXII:RW now. Just reached the seventh chapter. So this game has main campaign missions, and then optional story related side missions. But I didn't realize it has optional non-story related missions as well. Meaning you can re-enter an area where a main campaign mission occurred, and basically just grind against monsters. But these grinding missions don't affect the overall game completion percentage, so I'm not going to worry about them. I have been beating every single story related (though optional) side mission however. I think I'm at 54% complete now overall. I wonder how long this game's gonna be. I'd read it was 12 hours long, but clearly that reviewer was full of shit. All's good though, I'm still having a fun time with it.

[noiseredux]

Good luck man, hope you can beat it and come away having enjoyed the experience overall.

thanks! The one thing that worries me is that I think at least some of the challenges are setup so that if you fail them (time limits, don't get hit once, etc) you'll have to restart the whole gauntlet. That's the kind of time-wasting shit that I don't like. But we'll see how it goes. I feel strong; I feel lucky.