☠ Souls Series Symposium ☠

[Sload Soap]

Well, it seems you've given up but if it's any consolation Marlowe, I was stuck on Ornstein and Smough for an absolute age before I finally beat them. And I do mean an age; basically since release week to March this year. Not constant play obviously but on and off over the years.

@CFFJR, you're nearly there, dude. I agree, 4-2 is an absolute bitch and I also adopted the strategy of just booking it. Those laser ghosts on the stairs can GTFO.


Anyway, DS2. I'm doing better now and learning to deal with its...eccentricities. Boosted adaptability which has led to far fewer hits during rolls and generally accepted dealing with all the flash mobs that this game seems to love throwing at you. I'm not quite as far as I thought I was (Shrine of Amana) and have no clue where two of the DLC areas are. I found one after beating Old Iron King but I couldn't get through the door. I'll come back to them later.

It's getting better but I still feel it's the weakest entry and it'll have to have an absolutely stunning ending to change that. There's so little enemy variety and so many of the areas feel like retreads. I did like the Gutter and Brightstone cove, they were kind of novel, as was the Lost Shaded Woods. Drangleic Castle was disappointing though, all of the grandeur of Anor Londo but with none of its substance. I know DS3 is as guilty of this, but at least those areas feel fleshed out. Black Gulch is just a corridor full of bullshit.

[isiolia]

Now if someone wants to play through an entire game with a strategy guide in their lap, then so be it. It's just not something I personally believe in as an elitist snob. If I played through a game relying on a strategy guide to succeed, I'd feel like a fraud and the victory would seem hollow. Maybe that sounds silly, but as a very self reliant person that's just how I'm wired.

I think part of it may also come down to where someone's experience lies. As someone who has played MMOs for literally tens of thousands of hours, utilizing online resources for a game is pretty much second nature for me. Which isn't to say that I even look at FAQs for everything. Plenty of games fall into the "maybe check a FAQ to see how many levels are left" category. But, for things that actually have mechanics worth looking into - like these games do - I'll research them. I got used to that being par for the course.
I could see it being similar for, say, folks used to playing competitive games. You'll watch matches and pick up strategies and so on.

There's also the point to be made about experience - even general gaming experience. The more you have under your belt, the more readily you'll distill what you need to do to succeed in a particular game or genre. To me, that's where FAQs/walkthroughs can be quite beneficial. They're like an example problem in a textbook. Following one can end up teaching how to play that genre as a whole, or more.


That being said, I do agree with your sentiment that things in these games tend to be doable either way. There are usually better approaches, of course, but it's pretty rare that a class of magic or weapon is just so bad that it's barely viable. Instead, there are a variety of good or great strategies that tend to come down more to practice than anything.

So that leaves 3 levels to the end. I worked a bit on the dreaded 5-2 tonight, and aside from crawling through it on my first go (you're this close to blind, and it just tears at the nerves ) I haven't yet been able to get past the two big troll bastards. I've killed the first one every time, and every time I manage to get myself stuck in the muck without noticing and being unable to roll while fighting the second.

I think I've just ended up swinging wide to avoid those guys. There's certainly plenty of room to do so. Thief's Ring should prevent aggroing them (though the caster near the gate still would see me), if I'm thinking of the right location.

I'm not quite as far as I thought I was (Shrine of Amana) and have no clue where two of the DLC areas are. I found one after beating Old Iron King but I couldn't get through the door. I'll come back to them later.

I actually like Shrine of Amana a good bit, but I also like to bring a bow.

The DLC areas all require an item to enter, which in SoTFS are placed in the game world to go find (they're simply placed in your inventory in the vanilla version).
I think the Old Iron King item is near the elevator to the Last Giant, down by the flame salamander things.

The other two alters are past the Rotten boss arena, and in the Shrine of Winter, so you've likely just run past them.

The DLC areas in general are designed more in line with the rest of the series, and tend to be more generally praised.

[Exhuminator]

Plenty of games fall into the "maybe check a FAQ to see how many levels are left" category.

Yeah there's nothing wrong with that. I do that all the time, in addition to looking at HLTB to see how long the game averages to beat. I don't consider either of those aspects to be artificial aid, it's just finding out how long the road is.

There's also the point to be made about experience - even general gaming experience. The more you have under your belt, the more readily you'll distill what you need to do to succeed in a particular game or genre.

I guess it is difficult for me to be objective about that angle. I've been playing video games since 1982 or so. I have a pretty deep reservoir of experience to draw from. At the same time, I think if people use strategy guides by default, as a constant crutch, they are cheating themselves of a better gaming experience. And also slowing the growth of their own gaming skill. But again, this is an admittedly elitist snob talking, so take that with a bucket of salt. I tend to get snide when people only beat games because they used somebody else's walkthrough, or played the game on Easy mode, or some other such nonsense. It's just a personal pet peeve is all.

The Storm King was super cool whiz bang spectacle. I wish the Storm Ruler had more use though, because swinging it around is fun.

Yeah, when I got that sword I was like "I AM GOD NOW", and then promptly took it to another level where it completely failed to call down thunderous lightning from the sky and YOU DIED

I saved Biorr (and Yuria) and his presence made the Penetrator a non issue.

I attempted that fight alone a few times and it just wasn't happening. I think the developers clearly meant for the player to have to rescue Biorr.

Can't finish tonight because I've gotta sleep (wuss) but I'm nearing the end here.

Yes, you are doing wonderfully. 5-2 itself is really the final boss of world 5. The bosses beyond the level itself are fairly trivial.

1-4 is a rather difficult stage though. I sure hope you like red eyed demons and black phantoms. There are some mid-bosses in 1-4 as well. As for the big boss of 1-4... if you forgo the cheese and fight False King melee style, you're in for the fight of your life. I think you'll be able to handle it, but it won't come easy.

[marlowe221]

I guess it is difficult for me to be objective about that angle. I've been playing video games since 1982 or so. I have a pretty deep reservoir of experience to draw from. At the same time, I think if people use strategy guides by default, as a constant crutch, they are cheating themselves of a better gaming experience. And also slowing the growth of their own gaming skill. But again, this is an admittedly elitist snob talking, so take that with a bucket of salt. I tend to get snide when people only beat games because they used somebody else's walkthrough, or played the game on Easy mode, or some other such nonsense. It's just a personal pet peeve is all.

I am generally with you on this point Exhuminator.

But then you have games like the ones being discussed in this thread. Dark Souls doesn't work without internet forums/guides/wikis. Or at least it would never have reached such a large audience without the modern internet and remained an extremely obscure and niche title.

Personally, I don't think that's a good thing - I think a well designed game should create opportunities for players to learn the game without resorting to flat out trial and error. Or, you know, write a damned manual!

I have a hard time seeing how the Dark Souls series would have been as successful in the pre-internet era as it has been. I think it would have fallen into the category of a lot of middling NES games - kinda neat, but WTF is going on in this game?

[Exhuminator]

Well I can't speak to Dark Souls yet, as I haven't played it. So I remain neutral on that one.

I did however beat Demon's Souls offline and without a strategy guide. Admittedly I got some useful advice off this forum. However, that's not any different than when you were in school and some of your friends gave you protips on the playground.

I think if you give yourself some time to cool down, and come back later rejuvenated, you'll kick O&S's asses. Sometimes a little distance is all it takes.

[marlowe221]

Well I can't speak to Dark Souls yet, as I haven't played it. So I remain neutral on that one.

I did however beat Demon's Souls offline and without a strategy guide. Admittedly I got some useful advice off this forum. However, that's not any different than when you were in school and some of your friends gave you protips on the playground.

I think if you give yourself some time to cool down, and come back later rejuvenated, you'll kick O&S's asses. Sometimes a little distance is all it takes.

You may be right. But this is at least my third round of coming back to the game after a break to try to take on O&S. So, I don't know.

Also, most of the stuff that went around my playground(s) about video games when I was growing up was bullshit.

[dunpeal2064]

Also, most of the stuff that went around my playground(s) about video games when I was growing up was bullshit.

The amount of stupid things I did in Pokemon, good lord.

[Xeogred]

Well, it seems you've given up but if it's any consolation Marlowe, I was stuck on Ornstein and Smough for an absolute age before I finally beat them. And I do mean an age; basically since release week to March this year. Not constant play obviously but on and off over the years.

@CFFJR, you're nearly there, dude. I agree, 4-2 is an absolute bitch and I also adopted the strategy of just booking it. Those laser ghosts on the stairs can GTFO.


Anyway, DS2. I'm doing better now and learning to deal with its...eccentricities. Boosted adaptability which has led to far fewer hits during rolls and generally accepted dealing with all the flash mobs that this game seems to love throwing at you. I'm not quite as far as I thought I was (Shrine of Amana) and have no clue where two of the DLC areas are. I found one after beating Old Iron King but I couldn't get through the door. I'll come back to them later.

It's getting better but I still feel it's the weakest entry and it'll have to have an absolutely stunning ending to change that. There's so little enemy variety and so many of the areas feel like retreads. I did like the Gutter and Brightstone cove, they were kind of novel, as was the Lost Shaded Woods. Drangleic Castle was disappointing though, all of the grandeur of Anor Londo but with none of its substance. I know DS3 is as guilty of this, but at least those areas feel fleshed out. Black Gulch is just a corridor full of bullshit.

The DS2 final boss freaking sucks, haha. Cool ending though. I hope you check out the DLC though... I think some of it is some of the best stuff in the whole franchise. One level feels like Stonefang Tunnel and Iron Keep merged, one of my favorite levels ever. I can't really defend your disappointments with the DS2 levels. My nitpick is that they tend to be very short, so they don't leave much of a mark. This is completely different with the DLC, if you want some massive singular areas again you will definitely get it here. But anyways, I've put in 200 some hours on DS2 across the PS3 release and then got the platinum on the PS4 Scholar Edition, it's still a blast and super fun to me despite its flaws. I got the most out of the online with this one as well.

Shrine of Amana felt like something straight out of Demon's Souls haha, I loved it. It was a very weird gimmicky level, but I liked that about it.

[CFFJR]

@CFFJR: Good stuff dude. If you haven't noticed, you can go back to 4-3 and grind there really easily with the Storm Ruler. Best grind spot in the game once you get a handle on it.

I had not. Really hadn't considered it at all in fact. And with the Ring of Avarice in hand... I will definitely take advantage of that now. Thanks!

@CFFJR, you're nearly there, dude. I agree, 4-2 is an absolute bitch and I also adopted the strategy of just booking it. Those laser ghosts on the stairs can GTFO.

Ha, damn right. I was so happy the first time I got down there. I stopped to pick up an item, laser to the back, dead. God damn game.

I think I've just ended up swinging wide to avoid those guys. There's certainly plenty of room to do so. Thief's Ring should prevent aggroing them (though the caster near the gate still would see me), if I'm thinking of the right location.

I don't know about a caster (only because I die before getting close enough) but there's definitely a gate in sight. Anyway, I'll give that shot on my next go. They're certainly not worth the effort and risk to fight.

1-4 is a rather difficult stage though. I sure hope you like red eyed demons and black phantoms. There are some mid-bosses in 1-4 as well. As for the big boss of 1-4... if you forgo the cheese and fight False King melee style, you're in for the fight of your life. I think you'll be able to handle it, but it won't come easy.

Not looking forward to black phantoms. There will be no cheese though, I can assure you.

---

I like Demon's Souls a lot, but it's nice to know I'm near the end. I'm ready to be finished.

[CFFJR]

5-2 and 5-3 are done, and really, so are the troublesome parts of 1-4.

I've killed the stupid phantoms (I'm so glad they don't respawn) and that pain in the ass dragon. It took two tedious attempts for the latter because I didn't have enough arrows the first time, but on the second I put him down. I don't know if Biorr did much other than get cooked extra crispy, but he did survive the fight. So at least future runs to the boss will be quick.

I've fought the king twice now, taking off about 2/3 of his health both times. So close. He can be crazy aggressive, and coupled with his high damage I spend too much time using healing to stay in the fight. He also got me once with the soul drain, the hateful prick. Curse Weapon has helped a bit with my own damage output, but it's tough to time its use through his barrage, especially since my mp is so low (I only increased it enough to use this spell) that I can only use it once before I need to waste time restoring it. I need to anticipate his attacks better so I can dodge more rather than block and save a bit more stamina.

I stayed up way too late tonight and have to stop, but tomorrow this fucker dies.