World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[ZeroAX]

Well ZeroAX, I guess I'll bring it up. I'd hoped to avoid mentioning this but...

...They were Jews. And Jews have not really been welcomed anywhere since the time of the Pharaohs. They were not given reclaimed German territory in Europe because it was an opportunity to get rid of all the Jews and Roma in one fell swoop. While people did not wish for them to die, you have to understand that antisemitism was not always the domain of militant Islamic dogma or displaced Palestinians. Europeans had been hating people for being Jewish ever since there were Jewish people to hate. I laugh when Christians around me talk about how they are 'persecuted' because they have nothing on the Chosen tribe. You'll notice that bringing the Jews to the US would have been just as easy / difficult as moving them all the way to the Middle East but I have never read anywhere that that was even contemplated.

So yeah - it was politically expedient and culturally convenient to put the Jews in modern day Israel. Since oil production was only just being realized as the economic force it would become, no one thought for a second that all these mega-powerful Islamic states would sprout up from the fragments of the Ottoman Empire to contest the Jewish Settlement. It was terribly shortsighted.

oh bring it up all you want, antisemitism was never big in Greece so it's not part of our "dark history" (not that we don't have any, it's just not regarding jews)

fair enough I guess. Yeah Jews never mixed with Europeans, and as is always the case the fault is at both sides.


But the problem remains. The ones who's fault it wasn't (Arabs living in the area) are the ones having to pay for other's (Europe, US, Jews) mistakes.


Oil production not seen as an economic force in 1945?

[BoringSupreez]

I still think Europe was a better idea. They took those lands from Germany and gave them to Poland (another country which has greatly suffered, but anyway), why not create a Jewish state there?

Those lands in the image taken away from Germany were under USSR control. We couldn't have given those to the Jews any more than we could have given them Ukraine. By 1945, after the war, US/UK-USSR relations were already becoming tenuous.

[Flake]

Oil was important but it was not until after World War II that car ownership became ubiquitous with the middle class. Hell, before World War II there really wasn't a middle class. It was the elites, the well off and then varying degrees of poor people.

Once the automobile really began to replace other forms of transportation oil became important. And until the 60's or 70's, oil was abundant enough in so many countries that it did not really matter if most of it was in the Middle East and Canada.

By 1945, after the war, US/UK-USSR relations were already becoming tenuous.

This is true. The Allied leaders were at odds and ends about what to do with Russia after VE Day. Half of the Generals wanted to turn on the Russians and push them back to Stalingrad. Hell, the entire reason we chose to drop the atomic bombs on Japan when we did was to keep Russia from entering the war in the Pacific and gaining for itself a stronger seat at the negotiation table. If they had, we'd probably have a North and South Japan to match Korea.

[PixelPunk]

I read a story somewhere, sadly I don't remember the source, that pretty much right after the fall of Nazi Germany the Soviets would get in formation, march towards the American/British sector, nearly reach the line as if they were going to fight, and then back off. They would do this multiple times a day and at some points the Americans even fired pot-shots at the Soviets. Pretty crazy.

[Flake]

I read a story somewhere, sadly I don't remember the source, that pretty much right after the fall of Nazi Germany the Soviets would get in formation, march towards the American/British sector, nearly reach the line as if they were going to fight, and then back off. They would do this multiple times a day and at some points the Americans even fired pot-shots at the Soviets. Pretty crazy.

Compare that to the 38th parallel in Korea. Now THAT is a crazy border.

[PixelPunk]

I read a story somewhere, sadly I don't remember the source, that pretty much right after the fall of Nazi Germany the Soviets would get in formation, march towards the American/British sector, nearly reach the line as if they were going to fight, and then back off. They would do this multiple times a day and at some points the Americans even fired pot-shots at the Soviets. Pretty crazy.

Compare that to the 38th parallel in Korea. Now THAT is a crazy border.

In Soviet Russia, BORDER PARALLEL'S YOU!

[Zing]

Iran is, when their president said that he wanted to "wipe Israel off the map."

To be fair, probably every nation over there would prefer to have Israel "wiped off the map", it's just a matter of having the balls to say it. If the USA wasn't best buddies with them, they would undoubtedly be gone already.

[o.pwuaioc]

ZeroAX, two things:

First, it's a flat out lie that no Jews lived in Palestine before the British mandate. Look it up for yourself, they were there.

Second, which polis do modern "Greeks" descend from? Only by answering that question do you have a legitimate claim in ancient colonies.

Israel has a right to be there because the British owned the place, and it was theirs to do with as they pleased. No one's complaining because Pakistan is now Muslim even though Hindus historically were there? It's reality: deal with it.

On a related note, I don't know why Greece hasn't invaded Cyprus yet and kicked out the Turks.

[Retrozoa]

Iran is, when their president said that he wanted to "wipe Israel off the map."

To be fair, probably every nation over there would prefer to have Israel "wiped off the map", it's just a matter of having the balls to say it. If the USA wasn't best buddies with them, they would undoubtedly be gone already.

While being allies with the US helps, as the 7 days war has shown, the Israelis are more than capable of defending themselves. Heck, they're so good at fighting they invented a new martial art(krav maga).

[ZeroAX]

ZeroAX, two things:

First, it's a flat out lie that no Jews lived in Palestine before the British mandate. Look it up for yourself, they were there.

Second, which polis do modern "Greeks" descend from? Only by answering that question do you have a legitimate claim in ancient colonies.

Israel has a right to be there because the British owned the place, and it was theirs to do with as they pleased. No one's complaining because Pakistan is now Muslim even though Hindus historically were there? It's reality: deal with it.

On a related note, I don't know why Greece hasn't invaded Cyprus yet and kicked out the Turks.

And were they the majority?

Well 1/5th of modern Greece comes from the northern coast of Turkey. I guess another 1/10th comes from Istanbul and Izmir (Constantinopolis and Smyrna to us, and how the world knew all those cities till Turkey wanted to erase their Greek past).

I'm sorry though, I don't understand your post. What's point are you trying to make?

So it was their right to be give that land to Jews? Ok, fair enough. But it wasn't Israel's right to fucking invaded everyone and steal their lands, cause by UN laws that's illegal.

Also, how the fuck did a religion form a national identity? That always confused me.

Um.....Cyprus is a country which the Turks invaded cause the Greek dictatorship (a dictatorship backed by the USA, thank you very much oh "protectors of democracy") tried to stage a coup there.

Are you saying why we haven't liberated the occupied part, or why we didn't kick the Turks living there before? The first part.......whatever, the second part? Cause it would be barbaric. They lived there for centuries. We can't just pack them all and send them to Mongolia.