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Yeah, I've never really been a fan of Final Fight. But Final Fight 3? I played through that one a few years ago, and it's fantastic. You can tell they were competing with Streets of Rage, and had implemented quite a bit of variety that was lacking in earlier installments. To Final Fight's credit, it does feel extremely solid, but I still like the Double Dragon school of beat-'em-ups, with the very diverse movesets they bring.

Ack wrote:Is it really fair to compare only the first Final Fight to Streets of Rage 1, 2, and 3? Could anyone do comparisons of both full series?

I just kinda did, in very truncated form, in the post right above yours.

marurun wrote:

Ack wrote:Is it really fair to compare only the first Final Fight to Streets of Rage 1, 2, and 3? Could anyone do comparisons of both full series?

I just kinda did, in very truncated form, in the post right above yours.

Yeah, I saw it right after I posted. It's exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for though. Thanks.

Ack wrote:Is it really fair to compare only the first Final Fight to Streets of Rage 1, 2, and 3? Could anyone do comparisons of both full series?

No, but it's the only frame of reference I had, so it's what I used.

FF1 and FF2 are more simplistic arcade centric 2 button style brawlers, no doubt. That third one though I'd put it up against SoR2 or 3 anytime and prefer them. I prefered SoR2 over 3 anyway though. I've played both the trilogies and the style of the Capcom franchise I enjoyed more yet I know the two earlier entries are more limited. The third with many characters, SF2-lite move sets, combos, and the rest going for it is just fantastic.

Let's settle it. None of these are as good as Shadows over Mystara and Tower of Doom.

I still need to give those a fair shake, honestly. I didn't enjoy them a lot, but I don't think it's fair to base that on like five minutes of play time.

Sarge wrote:I still need to give those a fair shake, honestly. I didn't enjoy them a lot, but I don't think it's fair to base that on like five minutes of play time.

My recommendation is to look up the move list. It was featured on the cabinets but they are essential to play well. Learning to block and slide and do things like shield charges are very helpful! The game has great sprite work, branching path, rpg elements, huge move sets, inventory, spells and so much more. I loved it!

BogusMeatFactory wrote:Let's settle it. None of these are as good as Shadows over Mystara and Tower of Doom.

I love these games, but I don't like item and spell management in them. It can be cumbersome. I thought Guardian Heroes handled that much better.

I think for straight-up console beat 'em up goodness, the SOR series has the clear advantage, in part on the strength of it's consistent pedigree. Final Fight 3 is a good competitor, and I can understand someone preferring it, but if you evaluate the entire 3-game series, Streets of Rage is the clear winner.

Now, Double Dragon is a whole other thing. It feels very different indeed. I love it, but for very different reasons. Double Dragon is a bit slower and more strategic, originally due to technical limitations, but the series has continued that trend until just recently.

So what would a very modern beat 'em up play like? There's an obvious upper limit to complexity while still preserving fun. And even the best beat 'em ups had bosses with bizarre invincibility windows where you had to catch them at odd angles. Watching experts play arcade beat 'em ups makes it look like they're exploiting the games' limitations rather than engaging in a contest of skill (like with a fighting game).

I think we need to look at what worked for old beat em ups that we need to see more of in modern games. I also feel like it is a genre that is easily overlooked by retro enthusiasts. Most stick to final fight and streets of Rage and Double Dragon. We forget the likes of alien vs. predator, Spider-Man and even the odd JoJo's bizarre adventure hybrid fighter brawler game.