Nerds and Male Privilege

[Flake]

Right -- but this is where the discussion helps, isn't it? I don't have all the answers, just my experience. If I can explain how it feels on my side, and the guys can explain how it feels on theirs, that when progress can happen.

Exactly. It's a behavior that has to be confronted head on to be changed, no matter whether it is gaming, or gymnastics, or fishing, or cooking, or anything that can be narrowly (and incorrectly) pegged down to a specific gender, race, or creed.

[irixith]

Right -- but this is where the discussion helps, isn't it? I don't have all the answers, just my experience. If I can explain how it feels on my side, and the guys can explain how it feels on theirs, that when progress can happen.

Exactly. It's a behavior that has to be confronted head on to be changed, no matter whether it is gaming, or gymnastics, or fishing, or cooking, or anything that can be narrowly (and incorrectly) pegged down to a specific gender, race, or creed.

So here's a question then, not necessarily specifically directed at you, but you seem to be interested in this thread.

How does a female confront the issue when it's experienced, without coming off as..

..a bitch?
..a man-hating dyke?
..being on her period?
..etc.

Taking the E3 article as an example, she's feeling a lot of things that are naturally going to result in being defensive. How do you not make the PR guy respond on the defensive himself?

[Erik_Twice]

I would just say "Excuse me, but I know how to play this myself" and, if the PR man insists, you can continue with "Sorry, but if you aren't going to let me play by myself, I'm leaving".

Seems a good way to say it.

[o.pwuaioc]

I would just say "Excuse me, but I know how to play this myself" and, if the PR man insists, you can continue with "Sorry, but if you aren't going to let me play by myself, I'm leaving".

Seems a good way to say it.

You're fooling yourself if you don't think the first reaction would be, "God, what a bitch."

[Erik_Twice]

You're fooling yourself if you don't think the first reaction would be, "God, what a bitch."

Doesn't mean you are. I also don't think the reaction would be other than "Oh, sorry" and a dumbfounded look. Escalation is possible, though unlikely.

[pepharytheworm]

I would just say "Excuse me, but I know how to play this myself" and, if the PR man insists, you can continue with "Sorry, but if you aren't going to let me play by myself, I'm leaving".

Seems a good way to say it.

You're fooling yourself if you don't think the first reaction would be, "God, what a bitch."

If a man did the same thing he would say, "God, what an a@#hole." You can also insert jerk.

[o.pwuaioc]

I would just say "Excuse me, but I know how to play this myself" and, if the PR man insists, you can continue with "Sorry, but if you aren't going to let me play by myself, I'm leaving".

Seems a good way to say it.

You're fooling yourself if you don't think the first reaction would be, "God, what a bitch."

If a man did the same thing he would say, "God, what an a@#hole." You can also insert jerk.

Thanks for proving my point. Now, back to irixith's question.

[pepharytheworm]

You're fooling yourself if you don't think the first reaction would be, "God, what a bitch."

If a man did the same thing he would say, "God, what an a@#hole." You can also insert jerk.

Thanks for proving my point. Now, back to irixith's question.

No, I didn't prove your point. It doesn't just matter what The PR guy thinks, but it matters also what the other people who heard what happened directly or indirectly think. Would all of them call her/him a name to dismiss his/her actions?

Someone mentioned Rosa Parks and I guarantee, the bus driver thought she was being a "B" and some of the passengers did too, but we all know that is not what everyone thought. If we all just go along thinking about what others would think of us nothing would ever change.

I am not saying everyone needs to stand up for themselves, you should only do what makes you happy. If being complacent makes you happy and dealing with what you don't like then fine, we can't change everything that makes us unhappy.

[Erik_Twice]

^Couldn't have said it better.

[Ivo]

Major props to Irixith for the akimbo play. If HotD4 is as tough as HotD is (I have trouble even on the starting levels) that is really incredible. Even if HotD4 is at the difficulty level of say, Virtua Cop that is still extremely skilled.

I understand that sometimes you should speak up but you don't. But at least I would expects her to admit that then. It happens to me sometimes and I admit it. Irixith told us her story and admitted it.
I'm not sure the author wanted to admit it clearly, at the very least it wasn't mentioned in the first article? Instead she claims writing the article was retroactively superior to standing up for herself right then... I still don't understand the reasons she acted the way she did and wrote the way she did, and I still think she did not explain herself well in the response to the original article. Maybe I'm just tired and I will re-read it another day.

As for what the guy (or anyone else) would think about her for standing up to herself - why should she care (not saying she doesn't)? Did she care what people would think of her for writing the article? I'm sure some people think she is a bitch right now, and yet she was brave enough to write it.

The number of things - that aren't harming anyone, just to be clear - that I wouldn't do if I cared what people thought. I would have to be pretty unhappy if I did. I think the same applies to Irixith.

Just because someone is a man does not mean he is within what others consider "the norm". Aren't most gamers in this forum outside the norm, just for being retro gamers? We have threads about that. I'm not sure (nor does it matter) what gender or group or individual is more "judged". At that stage this isn't just a female issue at all, and some when being judged are in "groups" (sometimes up to "groups" of a single individual) that are much smaller than "half the population".

Ivo.