racketboy.com

dunpeal2064 wrote:I have played many Pen and Paper games that involved no Role-playing either. It is up to the player. So, is Werewolf no longer a roleplaying game> Or Hunter?

To quote myself:

Me wrote:Stricly speaking D&D and GURPS are roleplaying systems that can be used for both roleplaying and things that aren't roleplaying like wargaming at a reduced scale or dungeon crawling in the gygaxian style.[/quote.]
Of course, I agree that if I play "The Tomb of Horrors" I'm not playing a roleplaying game. As you say, you played a Pen and Paper game but you didn't play a roleplaying game.

Right now I'm eyeing my Car Wars manual, which I plan to use exclusively to wargame, with no interest towards roleplaying with it.

You could also argue that FF games requite NO strategy.

Oh, that's harsh even for a well-known hater like me

Ha ha, its true though, to an extent.

Don't get me wrong, I would never argue that Final Fantasy, or really any "RPG", influence role-playing.

However, I think that RPGs do carry on everything BUT the roleplaying from Pen n paper RPGs.

Its like the "RPG" title is a nod to what influenced them, more than it is a direct translation of Pen N Paper to the video game world. You could just pretend that RPG = Role Playing (influenced) Game


However, to completely take what you said, and turn it against you, I could "Roleplay" in the earlier Final Fantasy games if I wanted to.

I could dress as a Black Mage and be all, "Yeah, full party of black mages, and they are all my digital wizard trainees, and they shall destroy the digital forms of all those monsters me and gorath killed on that last trip to the Mines of Sultack"

See, I not only role=played a Final Fantasy, I even connected it to Pen and Paper.

All in all, what matters more than any of this... Zelda is not an RPG

Everybody talks about stats not being in Zelda games...sure they are, they're just not as painfully obvious as they are in JRPGs. Hearts=HPs, Sword Model=Attack Rating, Armor/Ring=AC, Shield=Defense or Resiliancy, and Magic Meter (in some Zeldas)=MPs.

Add that to the open-world exploration, the fantasy world and creatures, magic in everything, and all the loot and I can't see how so many of you are so close-minded to the fact that many, MANY people view the series as an action-RPG. And Zelda 2, if no other game in the series, has to be agreed by everyone as being an action-RPG.

It's definitely not a traditional western-RPG or a JRPG, but why not action-RPG? Just because it's basic in those RPG departments, shouldn't change that. Isn't Crystalis classified as an action-RPG? It's pretty much a Zelda-clone.

BurningDoom wrote:Everybody talks about stats not being in Zelda games...sure they are, they're just not as painfully obvious as they are in JRPGs. Hearts=HPs, Sword Model=Attack Rating, Armor/Ring=AC, Shield=Defense or Resiliancy, and Magic Meter (in some Zeldas)=MPs.

Add that to the open-world exploration, the fantasy world and creatures, magic in everything, and all the loot and I can't see how so many of you are so close-minded to the fact that many, MANY people view the series as an action-RPG. And Zelda 2, if no other game in the series, has to be agreed by everyone as being an action-RPG.

It's definitely not a traditional western-RPG or a JRPG, but why not action-RPG? Just because it's basic in those RPG departments, shouldn't change that. Isn't Crystalis classified as an action-RPG? It's pretty much a Zelda-clone.

I agree, I mentioned sword upgraids, and somebody said you get sheild upgrades in metroid, and gradius. those are diffrent kinds of shields. link has 3 different shields, one thing that does hurt the argument for people who believe zelda is an rpg, is that he can lose, and re-buy shields

is there any rpg game where you can lose earned stats, even if your really far in the game, like a shield/armour/hear gadge stats, not exp. points those typically reset if you die.

garrett123 wrote:

BurningDoom wrote:Everybody talks about stats not being in Zelda games...sure they are, they're just not as painfully obvious as they are in JRPGs. Hearts=HPs, Sword Model=Attack Rating, Armor/Ring=AC, Shield=Defense or Resiliancy, and Magic Meter (in some Zeldas)=MPs.

Add that to the open-world exploration, the fantasy world and creatures, magic in everything, and all the loot and I can't see how so many of you are so close-minded to the fact that many, MANY people view the series as an action-RPG. And Zelda 2, if no other game in the series, has to be agreed by everyone as being an action-RPG.

It's definitely not a traditional western-RPG or a JRPG, but why not action-RPG? Just because it's basic in those RPG departments, shouldn't change that. Isn't Crystalis classified as an action-RPG? It's pretty much a Zelda-clone.

I agree, I mentioned sword upgraids, and somebody said you get sheild upgrades in metroid, and gradius. those are diffrent kinds of shields. link has 3 different shields, one thing that does hurt the argument for people who believe zelda is an rpg, is that he can lose, and re-buy shields

is there any rpg game where you can lose earned stats, even if your really far in the game, like a shield/armour/hear gadge stats, not exp. points those typically reset if you die.

Some rogue-likes.

FF4's level ups frequently cause you to lose stats at high levels.

Regardless of arguments:
It's too late for me. ARPG=Zelda
It's like how we call Native Americans "Indians". Technically, they are not Indians (not even on the right continent). But that's how we learned about them as kids (or at least ignorant me). But it's really hard to go back once you and everyone around you is used to the idea.

It's just a name to categorize something, after all. At least here, we put a differentiating adjective that completely changes the meaning. Action-RPG in the same way we recognize American-Indian.

Besides, I suspect I like Zelda for pretty much the same reasons I like what others would call a true ARPG (whatever those are).
I suspect as well that it was Zelda that made me take interest in RPGs in general (I can't explain how, it just did, even if I preferred the action part at the time).

Metroid has been mentioned a few times and I consider that a borderline game. Blasphemy, I'm sure, but I tackled it from the same approach as a Zelda game (explore, fight monsters, collect items, become stronger, find the boss, etc. etc.)

Also, I consider Super Smash Bros. a fighting game. So take anything I say with a grain of salt. I just call things as I see them through amazing retro-psychedelic-tinted glasses.

I need to know what are the ARPGs that everyone can agree to. If no one can, then this topic has no conclusion.
--EDIT--
Actually, that would be slightly outside the realm of this topic, as it's only regarding Zelda games. But, still, I'm curious for my own comparisons.

Shadowrun for SNES would be one...

elmagicochrisg wrote:Shadowrun for SNES would be one...

The Genesis/Mega Drive version is as well

I listed several.

Kingdom Hearts, Rogue Galaxy, Final Fantasy XII, Star Ocean, Tales of..., Radiata Stories, Valkyrie Profile.

All ARPGs, all notably similar... all nothing like Zelda.

But, since the first line of your post was,

"Reguardless of Arguements"

I don't really see why you are even asking