This is the most stupidious thing i ever heard of...

[Ivo]

Many players are held back by fictional mental rules in all sorts of games.

I think an extremely clear example of that is the Ultimatum game, used in game theory. Lots of people play that one irrationally.

Ivo.

[Erik_Twice]

I have mixed thoughts about Sirlin's articles. While he knows his beans, his way of saying certain things is kind of poor and often you can see that his world-view of competitive play is limited by his preconceptions of the small videogame tournaments he plays in.

Case in point. He actually sees intimidating or trashtalking or even insulting the opponent so he plays worse is a valid tactic. Do that in a tournament of mine and you are out forever.

You may as well point a gun to someone or bribe the judge. When you get to that, you are no longer competing based on your skill at the game.

[Ivo]

Case in point. He actually sees intimidating or trashtalking or even insulting the opponent so he plays worse is a valid tactic. Do that in a tournament of mine and you are out forever.

You may as well point a gun to someone or bribe the judge. When you get to that, you are no longer competing based on your skill at the game.

He doesn't consider cheating as a valid tactic, so all there needs to be done for him to not consider that kind of "mind game" valid is for it to be clearly disallowed by the tournament rules. I think his point is that if there are no rules governing it, then it is valid regardless of people thinking it is bad. If it is really bad, then there should be rules disallowing it.

The basic idea is that you should not, as a player, make up arbitrary rules that others may or may not keep. If you don't like the rules of the game or tournament, then go to a game or tournament where the rules are more to your liking. E.g. Dislike snaking in Mario Kart? Move to another game. Dislike trash talk? Move to another tournament or lobby to the organisers to put a rule into place and enforce it.

Ivo.

[Erik_Twice]

I think his point is that if there are no rules governing it, then it is valid regardless of people thinking it is bad.

Yes. The problem is that he doesn't see those rules as something good for a competition. Which is bad.

In other words. I think it's fair to insult your opponent to win a tournament if the tournament allows it. I just think it would be a shitty tournament.

[ZeroAX]

In other words. I think it's fair to insult your opponent to win a tournament if the tournament allows it. I just think it would be a shitty tournament.

Yeah of course, it's not like we are civilized or anything. Do we really want to turn competitive gaming, into the same kind of brothel football is?

[Ivo]

I think his point is that if there are no rules governing it, then it is valid regardless of people thinking it is bad.

Yes. The problem is that he doesn't see those rules as something good for a competition. Which is bad.

In other words. I think it's fair to insult your opponent to win a tournament if the tournament allows it. I just think it would be a shitty tournament.

I entirely agree with you on insulting, and personally I would prefer tournaments where the players and crowd have to be silent during the match to forbid any kind of trash talking (even the type that does not involve insulting).

From the impression I have of Sirlin, I don't think he would be against that kind of rule of outside-game behaviour being imposed outside-game.
What I think he is usually against are rules that are put outside-game but apply inside-game (e.g. in FPSs a "no-camping" rule of some sort when the game itself has not way to penalize "camping"). That kind of rule is also usually pretty dubious to enforce.

I don't remember reading stuff from him where he appears against all outside-game rules... The only instance is I vaguely recall someone getting a game loss from accidentally pausing a game and I think he agreed with that.
I know he approves of mind games but I don't think that includes insulting?

Also what did "intimidation" mean in this context, is it like showing up with two huge thugs and giving the idea after the tournament they will rough you up or something? (you know, "let the Wookie win" kind of stuff)

Ivo.

[YoshiEgg25]

E.g. Dislike snaking in Mario Kart? Move to another game.

On another note, I found out that snaking is legal by Twin Galaxies standards.

[Ivo]

E.g. Dislike snaking in Mario Kart? Move to another game.

On another note, I found out that snaking is legal by Twin Galaxies standards.

As it should be! Does Twin Galaxies disallow stuff? I assumed that anything allowed "in-game" would be allowed, period (including stuff like exploiting known "bugs" etc.).

Ivo.

[noiseredux]

E.g. Dislike snaking in Mario Kart? Move to another game.

On another note, I found out that snaking is legal by Twin Galaxies standards.

As it should be! Does Twin Galaxies disallow stuff? I assumed that anything allowed "in-game" would be allowed, period (including stuff like exploiting known "bugs" etc.).

Ivo.

I kind of agree. I think if the game allows it, with no cheat device or whatever... then it's allowable.

[DinnerX]

If I'm going for a record or playing another good player I too think anything should go, unless we've agreed not to use some glitch.

When I play inexperienced players I would feel a little "we do not teach mercy in this dojo" if I went all out on them.

Oh and uh...the boots look odd to me.