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hailrazer wrote:I know someone created everything. The proof is everything exists around us.

You are confusing "know" with "believe". You "believe" this based on what counts as evidence for you, and I "believe" science as scientific evidence makes the most sense to me.

That simple slippage in terminology is the cause of a lot of misunderstanding.

hailrazer wrote:
I know someone created everything.

So what created that someone then?


Edit: Can we cut this thread off a few post back or so and stick it on the end of the Mosque thread? If not, oh well.

Octopod wrote:

hailrazer wrote:I know someone created everything.

So what created that someone then?

I know that you're not interested in a debate, I would merely like to present an idea because I find this topic interesting.

I would say that time and space are inventions (some of you have likely seen me mention this before). These are constraints that were created, and matter and living creatures were placed into them. This means that God does not exist in eternity, as eternity is a measurement of time. This would make God the singular, immutable force. Everything that exists besides him constructed, and God as a sentient entity would be the default state of reality.

If there was such an existence as an omnipotent God, I believe that he would have to be very much like this. I will not be so bold as to declare that I know this, I'm just presenting a concept of God that can explain "what was before God?"

I don't recall reading that in the bible anywhere.

What is the source you are basing this on?


I do not mind debating. I just do not want the thread to get locked. I figured there is already a thread where people are debating along these lines.

Dylan wrote:

Octopod wrote:

hailrazer wrote:I know someone created everything.

So what created that someone then?

I know that you're not interested in a debate, I would merely like to present an idea because I find this topic interesting.

I would say that time and space are inventions (some of you have likely seen me mention this before). These are constraints that were created, and matter and living creatures were placed into them. This means that God does not exist in eternity, as eternity is a measurement of time. This would make God the singular, immutable force. Everything that exists besides him constructed, and God as a sentient entity would be the default state of reality.

If there was such an existence as an omnipotent God, I believe that he would have to be very much like this. I will not be so bold as to declare that I know this, I'm just presenting a concept of God that can explain "what was before God?"

I've heard many present the idea that time does not exist. It's merely an illusion that we perceive as human beings, but to God and perhaps any other celestial beings or whatever you believe in, everything exists in the same moment. I've read explanations of how that is possible, but I wouldn't be able to explain it properly. It's probably too complex a topic for a retro gaming forum anyway

This is why I don't follow any religion. Your typical bible study course isn't going to look at God in complex ways like this. Some of the stuff you can read about in some belief systems in eastern parts of the world are pretty damn fascinating though

Octopod wrote:I do not mind debating. I just do not want the thread to get locked. I figured there is already a thread where people are debating along these lines.

While I can't speak for the other mods, I see no reason to lock the thread because the mosque thread had a similar discussion many pages ago.

Octopod wrote:I don't recall reading that in the bible anywhere.

What is the source you are basing this on?

This is more postulation on my part, though it's based on the teachings and understandings of an "almighty" God. I just reason that an omnipotent being would be unrestricted in entirety. At least, I buy into that concept more than a bearded man cruising around on a cloud.

Dylan wrote:

Octopod wrote:I don't recall reading that in the bible anywhere.

What is the source you are basing this on?

This is more postulation on my part, though it's based on the teachings and understandings of an "almighty" God. I just reason that an omnipotent being would be unrestricted in entirety. At least, I buy into that concept more than a bearded man cruising around on a cloud.

I like the idea of God, which I tend to think of as "it" rather than as he or she as being something far beyond any human concept. Unless you've been living in solitude in some mountains somewhere for the past twenty or so years in deep meditation, I doubt the average person will ever understand what god is until that person leaves this mortal coil

hailrazer wrote:Never understood the reasoning behind the statement "The burden of proof lies on a person to prove there is a God". My wife was abandoned and adopted at an early age. She has never met or seen her parents. But the burden of proof is not on her to prove she has parents. She knows she does.

I know someone created everything. The proof is everything exists around us. The burden of proof lies on Science to prove to me it all just happened out of nothing. ( Something science has never been able to duplicate). Until science proves this can happen (something existing where there was absolutely nothing before or something inanimate suddenly becoming alive) I will choose to believe the obvious, something/someone created it.

Nothing else makes sense to me.

But if someone has a differing opinion then me , no big deal. I still lead my life the same either way

Like someone else said, knowing and believing are two different things. And nobody is saying everything came from nothing. But to suggest that the thing that we came from is a "god" in any biblical sense, is an even further leap. It suggests that you somehow know what created us. You could go and say that the thing that caused us to come into being just happens to be something that you label "god" but I could label it "spiderman". That doesn't go any further in proving that spiderman is real. Pretty much everyone you could ask, from religious people, to the most atheist scientist you can find, would say that there was some event or cause that lead to existance. But where the burden to prove lands, is on those who claim they know what that cause was, and that it has some sort of biblical plan for us.

Science and logic tell us that if your wife exists, she must have been created from a sperm and an egg, which means she has parents. But if I said "And her father was a doctor and had a lazy eye and her mother loved waffles and was a taxi driver" you would probably ask me for proof.

Dylan wrote:

Octopod wrote:I don't recall reading that in the bible anywhere.

What is the source you are basing this on?

This is more postulation on my part, though it's based on the teachings and understandings of an "almighty" God. I just reason that an omnipotent being would be unrestricted in entirety. At least, I buy into that concept more than a bearded man cruising around on a cloud.

Your theory could be right. Who knows? Your questioning is more philosophical than religious. When people talk about god in this sense, it's not really a religious god. But when people claim to understand this god, (at least to some degree) do things in the name of this "philosophy" and claim that humanity became aware of this god's plan thousands of years before we invented buttons, atheists begin to have questions.