Random Thoughts Thread

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DinnerX
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Re: Random Thoughts Thread

Post by DinnerX »

dsheinem wrote: There's an implicit claim here that IF people were treated as intelligent and knew the scriptures/faith with greater depth while being in the church that they would somehow not rebuke the church later.
I wasn't taking it that way, but you are right. I merely meant all of the items described on the list are prominent problems in the church today.
dsheinem wrote:In my experience, I found that instead it was the very critical/hermeneutic mechanisms the church taught me to use TO become well versed in scripture/faith that also gave me the ability to understand the total intellectual vacuousness of scripture and religion as a whole. So it isn't that "those kids just haven't been taught the REAL Bible" so much as that "the REAL Bible" offers a lot of contradiction and imperfection that can't be reconciled with its self-purported holiness or those of its characters.
Certainly there will be people who come to the same conclusion as you did, but I think it's a shame that more Christians aren't at that level before they decide to leave. Many people don't appear to decide at all. They just drift away still vaguely believing pieces of whatever they managed to pick up at church.
Since this signature affects old posts, I'm leaving a message here in case anyone searches for my username. This account died in early 2013. I am no longer a fundamentalist.

Don't add to my problems by pretending my past views are still held in the present. I do not have any patience for that. Feel free to ask me what I think now.
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Re: Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Valkyrie-Favor »

There are definitely smart people who use hermeneutics to decide against religion, but there are as many who become convinced that there must be a God with the same devices. After all, higher-level thinking is just another tool! C.S. Lewis was a philosopher among philosophers who ended up becoming a theist, and then a Christian, after reading Chesterson and George MacDonald and taking with his buddy Tolkien.

No matter who you are, it's ridiculous to say "Anyone with half a brain has to agree with me!"
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noiseredux wrote:Playing on your GBA/PSP you can be watching a movie/TV show/playing another RPG on your TV and then just look at the screen every once in a while
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Re: Random Thoughts Thread

Post by dsheinem »

Valkyrie-Favor wrote: No matter who you are, it's ridiculous to say "Anyone with half a brain has to agree with me!"
Funny, I thought that was the basic argument used in a lot of evangelizing :twisted:
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Re: Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Valkyrie-Favor »

Not everyone who agrees with me has half a brain. :lol:
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noiseredux wrote:Playing on your GBA/PSP you can be watching a movie/TV show/playing another RPG on your TV and then just look at the screen every once in a while
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Re: Random Thoughts Thread

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Gamerforlife wrote: Ultimately, you don't need a religion to worship or believe in God. However, religion is a crutch that some people just need. True independence is not something they can handle so they need an organization or a book telling them how to live their life. If it helps them live a positive life, than I'm okay with that. More power to them
Everybody has some good points on the religion discussion, including that article. Great stuff guys. However, I picked this out of GFL's post because, well, it offends me. He says it in a positive light, but it still comes off as condescending, as if I'm weak for being religious. I doubt that was the intention, but that is how it makes me feel.

I've grown up in the Church and all, and my family has always been religious. But we're looser about it then some, but not as loose as most. My Dad is big on going to Church, but he's not one to force you or really cares either way. He does it for him. My mom is big on going to Church, because she grew up Christian, but without the Church. My mother's whole side of the family follows that, family based Christianity. I never really understood it until later- its a certain sect of Christianity that they followed, which didn't use the Church system, and had some other rules- women could only cut their hair in certain situations, some other stuff I never understood. My grandpa followed this, besides the added rules. That realllly has rubbed off on me. I believe that, to an extent, the current Church system isn't well designed. Setting up a Priest or Preacher, someone who is wrongfully shown as somehow closer to God, seems wrong to me.

Anyways, I had a time when I was around 12 or so, around the same time I got confirmed, when I questioned all of this. It was also a time I dealt with many other issues. The whole idealism that there might not be something higher hit me hard. Why live then? Why go through life if all we are here to do is eat, shit, fuck and die with no meaning in our life? I also began to question morals. Many morals originated in religion, but why do we have morals? Who decided what is wrong? Why is murder, racism, and hate wrong? Arguably it hurts people. But if nothing in life is really important, than who cares if you hurt someone if it makes you happy?... I was one of those people in my thoughts, and I became depressed, considering suicide and such. (I sat there once with a knife on my wrist for 30 minutes, contemplating it, but deciding not to seeing as my Mom came home.) Family took notice, suddenly got more religious with me, talked things out with me. It helped, and the idealism that there is something past life led to an end of me wanting suicide- that's something I couldn't ask forgiveness for.

But overall, I believe Religion is at the family level, and should be shared between families, although I do believe that Christianity and most religion would die out if that was the case. A conundrum for me.
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o.pwuaioc
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Re: Random Thoughts Thread

Post by o.pwuaioc »

Forlorn Drifter wrote:
Gamerforlife wrote: Ultimately, you don't need a religion to worship or believe in God. However, religion is a crutch that some people just need. True independence is not something they can handle so they need an organization or a book telling them how to live their life. If it helps them live a positive life, than I'm okay with that. More power to them
Everybody has some good points on the religion discussion, including that article. Great stuff guys. However, I picked this out of GFL's post because, well, it offends me.
You're offended that some people need religion as a crutch? This isn't controversial. Crutches exist for all sorts of things. Religion, support groups, close knit group of friends, online forums, etc. That's not something to get angry about.
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Re: Random Thoughts Thread

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o.pwuaioc wrote:
Forlorn Drifter wrote:
Gamerforlife wrote: Ultimately, you don't need a religion to worship or believe in God. However, religion is a crutch that some people just need. True independence is not something they can handle so they need an organization or a book telling them how to live their life. If it helps them live a positive life, than I'm okay with that. More power to them
Everybody has some good points on the religion discussion, including that article. Great stuff guys. However, I picked this out of GFL's post because, well, it offends me.
You're offended that some people need religion as a crutch? This isn't controversial. Crutches exist for all sorts of things. Religion, support groups, close knit group of friends, online forums, etc. That's not something to get angry about.
Saying some need it as a crutch makes it sound like those who don't follow religion are lesser than those who stand without said "crutch". It makes them sound weak. It sounds similar to the arguments I've heard from Redditt level atheists, proclaiming I'm mentally weak because I am religious.

Stuff like that hits me hard, especially at certain times, because I've doubted my religion. I'm going through it a bit right now-this just tortuous thought process about how I might be wrong, and how insignificant and worthless I truly am without it. Does that truly make me weak? Because that is what many would say.
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Re: Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Valkyrie-Favor »

What's worse: Being weak or being a Reddit level atheist?

Seriously though, living your faith takes a lot of courage. A man who stands his convictions - and good convictions at that - shouldn't be called a coward or a weakling. Gamerforlife, you did imply that.

I'll go back to Paul of Tarsus. Does everyone know how his story ended?
Last edited by Valkyrie-Favor on Tue May 28, 2013 6:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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noiseredux wrote:Playing on your GBA/PSP you can be watching a movie/TV show/playing another RPG on your TV and then just look at the screen every once in a while
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Re: Random Thoughts Thread

Post by Forlorn Drifter »

Valkyrie-Favor wrote:What's worse: Being weak or being a Reddit level atheist?
That's the same thing. :lol:
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o.pwuaioc
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Re: Random Thoughts Thread

Post by o.pwuaioc »

Valkyrie-Favor wrote:What's worse: Being weak or being a Reddit level atheist?

Seriously though, living your faith takes a lot of courage. A man who stands his convictions - and good convictions at that - shouldn't be called a coward or a weakling. Gamerforlife, you did imply that.

I'll go back to Paul of Tarsus. Does everyone know how his story ended?
Before you go further, you should keep in mind what word you used.
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