E3 2018 Discussion

[BogusMeatFactory]

So, I don't have any horse in the race on this Last of Us 2 gore discussion, but I will say that it feels like a false equivalence to compare it to games of yesteryear with killing in.

Slicing someone up with Genji's sword in overwatch is very difference to slicing someone up with a machete in The Last of Us. Sure, in terms of what's being protrayed they're both roughly the same, but if you really think that the more abstract idea being protrayed in one and the hyper-realistic version being shown in the other are equivalent then I don't know what to say.

I am 100% fine with killing tons of people in old 16 bit games, but I find the gore in modern games offputting because it looks and feels so real.

Yeah but there are tons of games in the PC era from the late 80's to the now as well as console games from the 32 bit era that have excessive gore and violence. Hell, just look to games like Eternal Champions and Mortal Kombat in the 16 bit era.

[Jmustang1968]

A lot is up to each individuals tolerances. Even while looking more realistic, I know it is just a game and is entertainmemt media, so I can easily divorce the game from reality. I am aware that is not the case for many, and stuff like this bothers them. To me games let me explore these types of things without having to get anywhere near such stuff in reality.

[alienjesus]

So, I don't have any horse in the race on this Last of Us 2 gore discussion, but I will say that it feels like a false equivalence to compare it to games of yesteryear with killing in.

Slicing someone up with Genji's sword in overwatch is very difference to slicing someone up with a machete in The Last of Us. Sure, in terms of what's being protrayed they're both roughly the same, but if you really think that the more abstract idea being protrayed in one and the hyper-realistic version being shown in the other are equivalent then I don't know what to say.

I am 100% fine with killing tons of people in old 16 bit games, but I find the gore in modern games offputting because it looks and feels so real.

Yeah but there are tons of games in the PC era from the late 80's to the now as well as console games from the 32 bit era that have excessive gore and violence. Hell, just look to games like Eternal Champions and Mortal Kombat in the 16 bit era.

Mortal Kombat felt too abstract to bother me back when, but I can't stand the new ones, it's too much for me.

Eternal Champions though, that one bothers me even now, so maybe I'm just a sensitive soul.

[Ack]

I think the imagery may also be something that triggers a response or a nerve in ways that those images didn't previously. Video game violence and gore generally doesn't bother me...generally.

There have been a few games where I found it disturbing or taken too far. For instance, there was a Fatality in a recent Mortal Kombat game where Ermac used his psychic ability to pull his opponent's esophagus out of their mouth. That was...a bit much for me. I have enjoyed a lot of gory movies and games over the year, including many Mortal Kombat games, but something about the image was unsettling. For an older example, I was once playing Return to Castle Wolfenstein and watched through a rifle scope as a Nazi soldier tried to flee an airstrike. I watched his feeble attempts to run as his two buddies were reduced to little more than meaty gibs. The blast threw him off the bunker he was trying to escape and catapulted him into a concrete wall, where he died, surrounded by the bloody chunks of the two guys he'd been up there with. That was another moment where the violence in what I play suddenly hit home, and I turned the game off for several days. Something about having watched his struggle suddenly came across as so utterly human that I was unnerved.

Sarge may simply have found an image that was that unsettling to him, and one that he feels was out of place with the imagery of the first game, even though the first had its fair share of violent imagery. Something about it struck a nerve and turned him away. Would it do the same for me if I watch the trailer? I don't know, but I'm more interested in watching the trailer to find out now.

[Exhuminator]

it feels like a false equivalence to compare it to games of yesteryear with killing in

I agree. Multi-million dollar motion captured gory death sequences in 4K doesn't really equate to shooting some dude in Blackthorne. But I get where Bogus is coming from to an extent. I imagine the apex of this medium's violent fixation will be a Manhunt style game in VR. Super realistic graphics whilst you rip some bastard's entrails out of his anus, feeling his death gurgles via haptic feedback in your SenseReal gloves. It'd sell buckets, sadly.

I like post apocalypse media, and like the grimdark and savage type experiences you can find in games like The Last of Us.

I enjoy apocalyptic settings as well. And I'm no prude. I'm not against gory violence in the right context. When I beat the original TLoU I had a hard time buying that Ellie would or could do the things she did in that game. This sequel only perpetuates that feeling even more strongly. Her character and actions are entirely predicated upon crude, dichotomous shock factor rather than immersive believability.

[Jmustang1968]

Unless the savage and bleak world and struggle to survive has turned this "girl next door" into a killer. It clearly was bothering her during the dance scene, as she struggles with trying to flip the switch and be a more "civil" person. These types of internal struggles are part of what intrigues me.

[marurun]

I agree. Multi-million dollar motion captured gory death sequences in 4K doesn't really equate to shooting some dude in Blackthorne. But I get where Bogus is coming from to an extent. I imagine the apex of this medium's violent fixation will be a Manhunt style game in VR. Super realistic graphics whilst you rip some bastard's entrails out of his anus, feeling his death gurgles via haptic feedback in your SenseReal gloves. It'd sell buckets, sadly.

I too have concerns sometimes, but I do not think your hypothetical example would sell buckets. I think most folks do have a limit, and that's beyond it.

Then again, Doom was pretty gory, but that didn't bother me much. The enemies are so inhuman and twisted already.

[Exhuminator]

I do not think your hypothetical example would sell buckets. I think most folks do have a limit, and that's beyond it.

I honestly hope you are right. I'm a bit of a misanthropist so my expectations concerning humanity's depravity limits are a tad low, admittedly.

[isiolia]

I do not think your hypothetical example would sell buckets. I think most folks do have a limit, and that's beyond it.

I honestly hope you are right. I'm a bit of a misanthropist so my expectations concerning humanity's depravity limits are a tad low, admittedly.

I don't think so. I think the older-skewing audiences accept some presentations of violence and gore as hand-in-hand with other aspects of the games. If you think about the kind of content that'd be in a similarly-themed and rated movie or TV show, plenty of games might get bloody, but they're pretty well in line with that. Additionally, the point may well be to disgust the viewer/player, or make them feel conflicted. Context matters a lot.
Personally, while I don't find a high level of brutality to be necessary in a game, it can fit, and won't tend to bother me in that case. Other games, such as the more recent Mortal Kombat entries, I do find off-putting and distasteful.

[Ack]

I imagine the apex of this medium's violent fixation will be a Manhunt style game in VR. Super realistic graphics whilst you rip some bastard's entrails out of his anus, feeling his death gurgles via haptic feedback in your SenseReal gloves. It'd sell buckets, sadly.

Didn't Manhunt 2 on the Wii attempt a form of this already by trying to make the players use the Wiimote for certain kills? I recall there being some issue with trying to use it as a garrote.

Anyway, back to Sarge's argument about The Last of Us 2...I watched the trailer, and I don't know if it's a cult. I think it certainly tends that way, what with the mural, the robes, and the one guy who prays to whatever goddess he seems to worship (I'm guessing that based on the mural). But they might just be the troops of a warlord, and this guy is reverting to something from his old life in his last moments.

As for the violence, yeah, watching a guy reach in and pull someone's intestines out isn't the start of a pleasant day. It didn't bother me that much, but I can see why it would bother others. I also noticed that the guy who had his neck severed at the end made whistling noises as he breathed through the hole. I don't recall any games having previously gone for that anatomical detail, but I could be wrong.

I am very impressed by how the world looks and the game seems to play. At times I wasn't sure whether I was still watching a cutscene or gameplay. Pulling an arrow out of one's shoulder reminds me of prying out bullets in FarCry 2, but dodging around and over things that way certainly does make me curious about the future of cinematic combat. Between this and games like Ghost of Tsushima, I'm surprised at how characters in games now move.